Good for a laugh

dcibel

Check the price tag on the new "graphene" Seas W19:

https://solen.ca/products/speakers/home-speakers/woofers/seas-excel-woofer-w19nx001-e0076/

Compared to the W18 Excel, it has 10cm^2 more surface area, worse frequency response, better corrosion resistance (the only thing the graphene is adding), and double the price tag. It's not the same motor however, having a bit more xmax at the expense of sensitivity. It has higher power handling too, so one can expect it to go louder. Still wouldn't be my first pick if I had CAD$900 to spend on a single midwoofer.

JasonP

I agree with what you are saying, and it is for sure super over-priced IMO. On the other hand, it looks ruler flat under 1.2k hz on their measurements. If you were going cost is no object, using serious DSP (a steep filter at 1,2k to something else) then I think it could be something amazing. The cost is right out though, wow.

dcibel

Oh it's definitely a useful driver, but as a direct comparison to W18, the price tag is a bit ridiculous. For only a few more bucks you could buy an Ellipticor 18WE, which also has a ridiculous price tag, but at least somewhat justified for all the new tooling required to make non-round parts.

"ruler flat" with a steep shelf at 1.8kHz isn't too attractive to me. The old W18 without the shelf to me is more useful based on a frequency response basis alone.

"Graphene" W19

Seas W18E0018

3rd party measured response (Zaph W18EX, same cone different T/S):

Ellipticor 18WE:

jr@mac

It will show up in a few esoteric, low volume commercial builds, a few very well-off (and/or one of the increasingly more common commercially sponsored) DIY'ers will build a few designs with it, the same apologists for drivers in this price class will lay claim to hearing things the skeptics do not hear, and will eventually be about as popular as the Ellipticor - that is to say, "huh?"

At this point in time, I would bet advancements in woofer technology are coming to a near stand-still, at least with the traditional moving coil/cone approach. So what do elderly companies like Seas/ScanSpeak/Accuton/etc do? They pull a trick like... new material! We solved the problem! 

Seriously, though, the Graphene looks like Seas is finally figuring out that whole faraday thing. Not sure it is worth an on-axis response that, were it on a cheaper driver, would result in quite a bit of mild-mannered jeering and eye-rolling. At well over $500/ea I would expect not to have to accept a single compromise in a driver. In fact, I believe we should demand that simple things like the fundamental be well-controlled. 

For example, a $19 Goldwood with a similarly poorly designed cone:



Imagine that on a baffle, and the cliff is likely somewhat more pronounced - but this costs $19, the Seas 30x as much. 

The Seas is a scam, sorry. 

jr@mac

Scam might be a harsh word, maybe the Zaph approach of "one star for value" is a more PC way to call a spade a spade.

kennyk

I swear....I could hear the Angels sing. 😁

dcibel

Seas has been manufacturing too much "exotic" products with silly price/performance. If they had just made the W19, with the high excursion motor, without graphene coating and a similar price tag to W18, I'd probably be saying it looks like a good driver for a little extra output. Sadly, I'll place this product at the bottom of my want list right next to the Alnico fullrange and the diamond tweeters.

Gowa

$607 USD! 

R-Carpenter

https://solen.ca/products/speakers/home-speakers/woofers/w16nx00108/

This one is one of my favorite drivers. I used it in my older 2 way speaker.

I ended up with  bottomless notch on the cone break up and another parallel notch at 1200hz. I love the sound I am getting out of it.

Having said that, the new offering is probably a catering to OEM market in a way of "New" and "revolutionary"

Every speaker manufacturer will use the "best" components to stay competitive. I am sure we will see many graphene excels in high priced offerings. Seas hasn't had a new driver in a while so this is their bet in the component race. Let's see what Scans will roll out next.

dcibel

I guess it just goes to show that new, revolutionary, expensive manufacturing methods aren't always superior. I remember watching on TV something about beer, said that Budweiser had one of the most expensive brewing processes of the big beer companies, but I still think it's about as good as sex in a canoe

The Seas Excel woofers are amazing, as are Scan Revelators, but are pricey and I think many people, at least DIYers look at them as old outdated drivers, surely there must be something newer and better than this 10+ year old tech? It actually wasn't until recently that I heard that there were some long term corrosion issues with the magnesium cones. I guess in some cases the coating hasn't quite fully protected the cone from the elements. The graphene is a better protective layer, but I'm sure there's some other less expensive process that could be used if the only goal is to protect the cone from air and humidity.

One thing that is great about the Excel drivers, being that they are metal cones, the motor inductance has zero variance over excursion like an underhung motor, so your notch on the resonance will stay put even at high output. Certainly can't say the same about the more budget parts from Dayton and Fountek. My computer speakers I've been using for some time are Seas W15 and it has some of the cleanest midrange of any of my speakers, but I think this year I am going to build something new for my desk using Wavecor WF152, simple because I have them and my big ass desk can support something larger.