Dayton PA165 6"woofer

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Does anyone here have some experience with this driver?

I'm constantly drawn to its pretty attractive combo of efficiency and price and modest size. But what kind of effects should I be aware of with its severely limited Xmax and potential distortion? I'm guessing there's some significant bass compression, but how low and at what SPL? Is this really only capable as a highpassed mid-woofer or can it be pushed down into the 60-70hz range at moderate volumes without imploding the low end?
Does it sound brash and harsh or can it be easy to listen to without feeling like its barking at you?

Does it have any interesting quirks?
Are there fans or haters?


I made a quick search here but didn't see anything. Admittedly it's cheap enough I'll probably buy one to play with at some point unless there are some loud warnings to avoid it for music and movie use. I'd love to hear some opinions either way. 

jhollander

I got a pair of the PK165s from Dan P and turned them into a coax. Despite the lumpy FR they had a very detailed mid range sound that I liked.  So I'd try any of the pro paper 6s as mids.

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jhollander said:

I got a pair of the PK165s from Dan P and turned them into a coax. Despite the lumpy FR they had a very detailed mid range sound that I liked.  So I'd try any of the pro paper 6s as mids.

I don't suppose you've tried it even temporarily as the bottom for a 2way (or maybe a 3way that isn't expected to reach super low)? 

I'm definitely happy to hear the mids of the PK (and likely the PA) can be good.

Now I want to get a rough idea how much I should curb my excitement and curiosity about their performance in the 50-65hz to 200hz range. They model as if they're nicely protected (dampened?) against over-excursion without severely limiting their bass performance, so I'm hoping they still produce "bookshelf" low end without super noticeable compression (mechanical compression?) from running out of motion. If true, I'm pretty sure that means they're moving a long ways out of their magnetic guide below 200hz at any significant volume.
My beloved PC105's are regularly playing a decent ways outside of their 2mm Xmax and they seem to handle it very nicely. I'm wondering if I can probably expect the same from the PA 5"-6" and PK 6" or if I should expect them to distort more noticeably or compress when playing bass.

jhollander

With an x-max of 1.5 mm is only a mid range. For a two way you need to get to at least 80 Hz. These are not going there. Sealed box roll off of the PK is in the 110 hz range in 6 liters. These are not really the best drivers for a 2-way.  Any of the paper RS series is going to give something more versatile 

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jhollander said:

With an x-max of 1.5 mm is only a mid range. For a two way you need to get to at least 80 Hz. These are not going there. Sealed box roll off of the PK is in the 110 hz range in 6 liters. These are not really the best drivers for a 2-way.  Any of the paper RS series is going to give something more versatile 

Have you tried pushing them lower in a ported box to see what they do (if they compress or distort or start to bottom-out)? I know that's probably a dumb question, but the pc105's and their similarly puny 2mm Xmax seem to happily reach down into the 50-60hz range without falling apart nor making spooky "I'm breaking" sounds...so I'm kind of hoping to discover the PA's and PK's can do the same trick, pushing way beyond their Xmax without getting cranky about it.

If you haven't, that's totally understandable too. I assume the first instinct after buying a speaker isn't "cool, now lets see if I can break it". And this might qualify. 

If you (or anyone else) has tried pushing them in a ported box down into the 50-65hz range or somewhere close and they audibly didn't like it, please explain what happened in as much gruesome detail as possible...even though I'm cringing a little about it and crossing my fingers this isn't a thing. 

jr@mac

In my not inconsiderable experience, it is better to perform the experiments on your own time and dime. The driver in question is inexpensive, a test cabinet is not hard to construct. We call it DIY for a reason ;-)

Approaching drivers designed for PA use with a home HiFi mindset can lead to some confusing propositions. We are used to numerous 6-7" drivers happily reproducing 45hz bass, but in pro audio, drivers under 12-15" are generally viewed as, at best, a midbass. 6.5" PA drivers should not be on the table during discussions about bass extension. There are really no features to support that. That size range is for flea watt guitar amps, small personal monitors, and line arrays augmented with high power bass bins. 

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I'll probably get there eventually. Like you say, they're certainly inexpensive enough to give one a shot myself either way.
I'm still curious if anyone here has already tried it though. I understand these speakers aren't meant for it and they're not spec'ed for it, but neither was the pc105 (unless you count PE's ported box spec which also lists the PK165 similarly at 67hz and the PA165 at 68hz). 

I'm happy enough to be the first dunce here to try it. I just don't want to be the second or third where someone else already had a really bad time but didn't want to talk about it. If somebody else's embarrasing story saves me $20, that's still money I can use for something else....like a DC25T. :P

jhollander

I regularly run distortion test and sweeps on my speakers. I'll see if I have anything on the PK165.  It doesn't take to many tests to learn what not to do.  Using your logic some tweeters have an x-max over 1 mm, not sure I'd try pushing them to 50 Hz. 

Mitchell_Cote

I have not heard it but for twice the money and twice the cabinet size this looks like a cool pro driver that may work for you.  Johnny pointed it out a few years ago.

https://www.parts-express.com/faitalpro-6fe100-6-professional-midrange-midbass-woofer-8-ohm--294-1150