Voicing Problem...

ani_101

so, i have been working on this speaker for some time now. Got the XO to a point where it look good on paper. Assembled it and listened to it.

Got it to a point where it sounded good with some of the better recorded songs - the typical audiophile grade music, female vocals, male vocals, jazz, bass, double bass, the various DIY house tracks etc. An then came youtube to listen to some popular "pop" songs - and this is where everything went to a garbled jumbled mess.

But the youtube stuff is what is mostly listed to. Is there something or some curve that I can set to make these at least be listenable - right now, it's just plain unlistenable.... but i have been at this 3 hours straight, and just tired. right now, the speakers are meant to be flat, and they are actually very good to listen to good recorded songs.... The same audiophile songs on youtube sounds decent, but pop songs don't

Will listen to again later, when i have not been listening to same few songs over and over again.....

Wolf

Don't you know most modern pop is horribly jacked up, compressed, and garbled anyway? This could be how it really sounds, and that could be the problem, not the speaker design.

ani_101

yes, do know that - about the loudness wars and the equalization added to the music by youtube and streaming services to equalize the loudness. 

But there should be something to at least make them listenable... 

right now it takes what is a detailed sounding with good blended high, floaty mids and strong bass really enjoyable speaker and turns it into a drill into your head shrilling treble and muddy i go my way and you go your way bass and the midrange is just confused not knowing whether to keep up with the treble or follow the bass

NavyGuy

Ani, can you provide some examples of what tracks they sound good on and what they sound bad on? Can you be a little more descriptive in what annoys you or sounds bad on the pop music? I find most pop music seems to be designed around the smiley face curve that many cheap speakers have so when played on good speakers it sounds like it doesn't have enough bass and is way too forward in the mids. Not sure if this is what you are hearing or not.

ani_101

Good sounding ones which i used for voicing - I honestly love you - Susan Wong, Do that to me one more time - Jheena Lodwick, Long After you are Gone - Chris Jones, Yesterday - Beetles

Of the not good sounding ones, i just remember Uptown Funk, i quick went through a few but after getting thoroughly disappointed, I then tried uptown funk on the big tower speaker - if was still garbled, but sounded a bit more. palpable... I tried Uptown Funk from a CD rip flac too, not much improvement.

jr@mac

Garbage in, garbage out. 

ani_101

but that's what 90% of music are, at least 90% of the revenue generation and what 99% people listen to on even more garbage speakers / earbuds / through some noisy phone.

anyways, is there any tool or software to visualize the music songs, etc? Would like to know what makes a good quality recording vs not so good one.

6thplanet

That's the million dollar question. Personally, I've never built a speaker with a flat response. Just doesn't do everything right. I'm a bit bass heavy, little BBC dip, then highs kinda flat till 10kish and roll off a couple dB. Example....

jhollander

If you have an omni mic hook it up and see if something sticks out at you.  You can alway sweep your speaker to make sure it matches your sim.  I also like to disconnect the tweeter to see if the woofer breakup is what is bothering me.  More often than not I need to push the break up down.

GeoffMillar

You could try using a graphic equaliser and use it on a track by track basis.  However, I haven't done that as I can't be bothered.......

The quality of some YouTube music is OK for casual listening, some is awful.  I remember getting a shock when we built our first pair of really good DIY speakers; most of our highly compressed/limited music  - about 10 CDs worth - was from then on unlistenable and shrill.  But the rest of our collection sounded marvellous!

My guess is that if you voiced your speakers to reproduce the poor stuff to a standard with which you were happy, the rest of your music would suffer. 

Geoff

Ed_Perkins

ani_101 said:

but that's what 90% of music are, at least 90% of the revenue generation and what 99% people listen to on even more garbage speakers / earbuds / through some noisy phone.

anyways, is there any tool or software to visualize the music songs, etc? Would like to know what makes a good quality recording vs not so good one.

Do you have any of your other speaker builds available to compare with these speakers?  You would find out if the problem is only with this particular speaker.  If so, I would then run FR sweeps of the different speakers and compare.  

ugly_woofer

What does the response look like off axis?  My first thought is that there could be a bump in the power response.  Look off axis vertically as well as horizontally.

ani_101

what is the best way to take vertical off axis measurements? Horizontal, i keep turning the speakers, easiest and safest way to take vertical off axis without trying to tilt the speakers - raise the mic relative to the tweeter axis?

jr@mac

Lay speaker on side. 

ani_101

will take off axis measurements and report back. Am i looking for a smooth roll off in the high frequencies relative to the on axis, without any major dips and peaks?

ugly_woofer

Take a look at this Ani.  It's not a great example, but I think you will get the point.  Look at between 3K and 5k where the lines kinda bunch together, you will have more energy when you get that "bunching".  Now imagine the response was dead flat with no dip there, it would be really hot at those frequencies, but still be perfectly flat measurement wise.  Hope this helps.