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Wavecor WF223 + Scan 9900 = good

I made some progress on my Wavecor WF223/Scan 9900 two way - still haven't named them yet though. These drivers are spectacular and seem to love being roommates. I tried a couple different crossover topologies before landing on this one which really integrates them well and lines up the phase nicely for an octave above and below the 1400Hz xo point. My usual minimalist approach just didn't cut it this time and I spent some extra components to get everything where I wanted it.
I was excited to get measurements, so I never ported the enclosure as I had planned. I'm debating whether or not I should do so because I'm really liking the sealed bass I'm getting out of this driver (F3 around 55Hz with a shallow 12dB/octave rolloff). I suppose I could port it and then seal up the port if I don't like it as much. As mentioned in my last post, porting will give me an F3 around 45Hz with a little bump right before a similar 12dB/octave rolloff, so there's really nothing to lose and quite a bit to gain.
These Parts Express pre-fab boxes are very nice, but the baffle really needs to be braced or at the very least, glued in place. 4 screws in the corner of a 10" x 17" panel is not sufficient to minimize unwanted movement. Once I get the baffle fixtured properly and some damping material on the inside walls, this is going to be a VERY nice sounding speaker.


dcibelSilver1omoGowa6thplanetJasonPjhollanderani_101NavyGuyThumperTomRon_Eand 4 others.
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Comments

  • Nice, elegant looking speaker ya got there.

    DanP
  • Yeah I want to hear that for sure

    DanP
     John H, thanks to JP I did get that email
  • Can’t wait to hear it!

    DanP
  • That tweeter is definitely up to the task for an 8" 2-way.
    Nicely done!

    DanPJasonP
  • That looks like a promising pairing. The Scan 9900 is definitely a winner - one of my bucket list tweeters and I don't even like domes that much... I have an 8" two way with a similar box size and tuning methodology in the planning stages. Much lower cost parts though.

    DanPJasonP
    Keep an open mind, but don't let your brain fall out.

    Sehlin Sound Solutions
  • Are you kidding me? More than two parts? You've lost your mojo! No seriously, nice job those have got to sound sweet.

    JasonP
  • 55hz seems like the middle of the sweet spot for sealed bass. Any more if I can get 50-60hz out of sealed I am fairly happy.

    Looks a great build, sir.

    I have a signature.
  • @ugly_woofer said:
    Are you kidding me? More than two parts? You've lost your mojo! No seriously, nice job those have got to sound sweet.

    Lol I know right! I had tried a couple variations of the standard coil/cap on each driver with l-pad on tweeter and it actually looked quite good on paper and measured similarly. There was just something off in the listening tests though, so I decided to throw a few more parts at it and I really like where it landed.

  • @jr@mac said:
    55hz seems like the middle of the sweet spot for sealed bass. Any more if I can get 50-60hz out of sealed I am fairly happy.

    Looks a great build, sir.

    That's about where I've landed too. With these speakers, there's only a handful of tracks where I notice.

    jr@mac
  • @DanP said:

    @ugly_woofer said:
    Are you kidding me? More than two parts? You've lost your mojo! No seriously, nice job those have got to sound sweet.

    Lol I know right! I had tried a couple variations of the standard coil/cap on each driver with l-pad on tweeter and it actually looked quite good on paper and measured similarly. There was just something off in the listening tests though, so I decided to throw a few more parts at it and I really like where it landed.

    That's my experience also. The sims are great for a start, but critical listening and more tweaking provide the secret sauce. Looks like an awesome design!

    Don, Donno, or "Hey you" all work for me, But never "Mr Johnson"
  • That tweeter goes that low?!!!!

  • That tweeter is one of the original workhorses. IIRC, Jon Marsh has used it down to 1200. It is a tweeter that remains state of the art 30 years later.

    DanPGowa
  • Looks great - I would love to hear these some time. Heck, 11 parts in a 2-way doesn't seem unreasonable, especially when a few are just small caps & resistors.

  • edited September 2020

    Don't fear the parts!!!!! ;)

  • @Tom_S said:
    Looks great - I would love to hear these some time. Heck, 11 parts in a 2-way doesn't seem unreasonable, especially when a few are just small caps & resistors.

    Yeah, when you break it down, it's just a standard 6-part cap/coil/l-pad 2-way with one additional shaping circuit per driver. I've got some folks requesting I post measurements to play with designing themselves. I'll post the link here too if there's any interest.

    kenrhodesPWRRYDSilver1omo
  • Yeah Dan, I'd be interested. A bit more complex than I usually build, but I have high respect for your ears and ability.

    Don, Donno, or "Hey you" all work for me, But never "Mr Johnson"
  • edited September 2020

    If anyone wants to play along...

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xvz3q4_rc9-NVWw4dindFLmF07IDWUvq/view?usp=sharing

    These measurements were taken inside with 4.5ms gating, so nothing below about 500Hz can be trusted except on the nearfield measurement. CTC distance is 194mm and I got a Z offset of 25mm, but I've included all the necessary measurements to derive yourself. Let me know if I've forgotten anything or if you have any questions.

  • @DanP said:
    If anyone wants to play along...

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xvz3q4_rc9-NVWw4dindFLmF07IDWUvq/view?usp=sharing

    These measurements were taken inside with 4.5ms gating, so nothing below about 500Hz can be trusted except on the nearfield measurement. CTC distance is 194mm and I got a Z offset of 25mm, but I've included all the necessary measurements to derive yourself. Let me know if I've forgotten anything or if you have any questions.

    I'd love to "play along", just looking at the file names, 20" is pretty close for a "far field" response. Rule of thumb for capturing the baffle diffraction in the far field would be 4x the cabinet width, so 40" in this case. The extra distance will also put the mic a bit closer to "on-axis" with the woofer which should get a bit more accuracy in the sim on the high end of the woofer response.

    I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening.
  • For the blender we would need the height of the woofer center from the bottom. Assuming the round over is 1/2 inch, baffle is 10 by 17

     John H, thanks to JP I did get that email
  • used 5.5 inch from the bottom

     John H, thanks to JP I did get that email
  • Thanks for posting the files. There was good alignment when determining the offset.

     John H, thanks to JP I did get that email
  • @dcibel said:

    @DanP said:
    If anyone wants to play along...

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xvz3q4_rc9-NVWw4dindFLmF07IDWUvq/view?usp=sharing

    These measurements were taken inside with 4.5ms gating, so nothing below about 500Hz can be trusted except on the nearfield measurement. CTC distance is 194mm and I got a Z offset of 25mm, but I've included all the necessary measurements to derive yourself. Let me know if I've forgotten anything or if you have any questions.

    I'd love to "play along", just looking at the file names, 20" is pretty close for a "far field" response. Rule of thumb for capturing the baffle diffraction in the far field would be 4x the cabinet width, so 40" in this case. The extra distance will also put the mic a bit closer to "on-axis" with the woofer which should get a bit more accuracy in the sim on the high end of the woofer response.

    Yeah, when I can get outside that is what I do, but I don't have a great space inside so going a little closer is the lesser evil.

  • @jhollander said:
    used 5.5 inch from the bottom

    This is similar to what I got the first time around and I wasn't satisfied while listening. My final xo isn't much flatter in the FR, but it has better phase integration over a broader span than my first couple iterations. These drivers perform so well in the highs and lows that if you don't nail the xo, the midrange is clearly the weak link.

  • @DanP said:

    @dcibel said:

    @DanP said:
    If anyone wants to play along...

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xvz3q4_rc9-NVWw4dindFLmF07IDWUvq/view?usp=sharing

    These measurements were taken inside with 4.5ms gating, so nothing below about 500Hz can be trusted except on the nearfield measurement. CTC distance is 194mm and I got a Z offset of 25mm, but I've included all the necessary measurements to derive yourself. Let me know if I've forgotten anything or if you have any questions.

    I'd love to "play along", just looking at the file names, 20" is pretty close for a "far field" response. Rule of thumb for capturing the baffle diffraction in the far field would be 4x the cabinet width, so 40" in this case. The extra distance will also put the mic a bit closer to "on-axis" with the woofer which should get a bit more accuracy in the sim on the high end of the woofer response.

    Yeah, when I can get outside that is what I do, but I don't have a great space inside so going a little closer is the lesser evil.

    Ok, just as long as you know that the response may look a bit different when you back up a bit. At the very least, with the short distance the woofer measurement is about 20 degrees off axis.

    I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening.
  • Finished these up tonight. I ended up adding a brace and gluing the baffle in place. I also ported the enclosure (as planned - kind of) and lined the walls with fiberglass. All these little differences combined really cleaned up the midrange from my voicing sessions and I'm very pleased with how these turned out.

    The low tuning worked out well, adding a little depth and oomph to the sealed version and minimizing excursion. I didn't get to put them through their paces tonight but what I have heard so far is impressive. Looking forward to cranking these tomorrow!



    D1PP1Njhollanderkenrhodes6thplanetThumperTomsquamishdrocR-CarpenterGowa
  • It's a tiny compliment, but I'm digging those Madisound 10uF caps. Man, I bought a whole ton of those back in the day!

    DanP
    Don, Donno, or "Hey you" all work for me, But never "Mr Johnson"
  • Thought those Madi 10uf caps were mylar?

    rjj45
     John H, thanks to JP I did get that email
  • @jhollander said:
    Thought those Madi 10uf caps were mylar?

    They sold them as poly and I don't have any reason to doubt it. Like Don, I bought a ton of them 10 years ago or so and I'm finally getting to the end of my stash.

  • They are mylar film caps. My stash is almost depleted too.

    rjj45
  • @PWRRYD said:
    They are mylar film caps. My stash is almost depleted too.

    Is there a way to tell what they are? When I bought them, they were touted as poly.

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