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- DrewsBrews 4:46PM
- Inertiaman 4:46PM
- jholtz 4:46PM
- rjj45 4:46PM
- Tom_S 4:46PM
wogg's JPG tribute design on PETT
I don't post on PETT anymore but I do lurk by there every few days just to see if by chance there is something new and interesting. Wogg's JPG tribute build to his dad (I don't think he actually plans on building it though) caught my interest. I thought I'd start this thread for open friendly discussion.
I have never modeled the Dayton Classic series before but for a build like this that 15" looks pretty good. I think I would definitely go closed box at about 2.5 or so cubic feet. I wouldn't let the F3 of mid 40's scare me. Pretty impressive output with only 50 watts input.
I would probably choose the HiVi DMB-A over the Dayton RS dome. Half the price right now.... that's all I got there right now 
I think the RST28 is a bit overkill when you have a 2" dome mid that can cross so high. I would probably choose something smaller and cheaper like a 19 or 22 mm dome, or a price conscience ribbon or planar.
This is not a thread to bash wogg's idea at all. Just a chance for us to discuss what drivers and design choices we would choose and more importantly why.
What say you?
Comments
I think I would go with a smaller woofer 10-12" a cone mid and a small tweeter. I like what I have heard from similar economy builds. A well done design with solid value drivers can still be very impressive.
If I was set on building a 3way with a 15" woofer, I would be expecting a lot of dynamic range and volume to spare. I'd be concerned that stretching the limits of a 2" some midrange might negate the benefits of the big woofer. With a 3way you should have lots of driver options so you don't need to overly stress any single driver to its frequency limits.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the tweeter choice, but it's wouldn't be my first choice. I'd maybe go with something like this tweeter:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/scan-speak-discovery-h2606/9200-horn-loaded-1-textile-dome-tweeter/
Or maybe something with a small flange like SB26STCN. Maybe that Dayton ND25FW for an inexpensive waveguide option.
For a midrange, something a bit larger and sensitive:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-midrange/scanspeak-15m/4624g-discovery-5.25-midrange/
That discovery driver might not be the best value, it ticks all the boxes except a bit high cost. There's other options, but something 4-5" is what I'd go for. Maybe Dayton RS125.
For an all Dayton 3way option, go with the ND25FW tweeter and RS125, that should be a fun time.
I used the DC380 and liked it sealed. It's a budget woofer with a gasketed front so I would keep with the budget theme. The RST28 fits the budget theme imo, but I like the Al version better.
For the mid I want a big paper mid. I'd browse the pro drivers for something thats fits. I used the PK165 and despite it's lumpiness I enjoyed the detailed sound. I'm hot on some of the B&C drivers but those may not fit the budget theme.
I think a big mid gives me a chance to hide the big woofer with a low x-o point. Yeah I may not get any work done today...
Yeah I may not get any work done today...
You're welcome!
The ND20FB-4 3/4" (275-035) and ND25FA-4 1" neo (275-059) look like they are both SUPER flat responses for $15-18.25 each. With the hivi dome mid craig suggested. Woofer still not decided.
This would be my mid choice https://www.parts-express.com/peerless-by-tymphany-fsl-0615r02-08-professional-6-1-2-midrange-woofer-driver-8-ohm--264-1402
Huh, it looks not available for some time... I need more smoother FR options. RS paper drivers are the same price as some of the pro driver mids.
A steal of a deal, sticking with Dayton theme.
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-pa130-8-5-full-range-pa-driver--295-010
With a crossover about 2kHz should roll that response lump into something relatively flat. Not sure there's any real gain in using this driver over the RS125 4 ohm variant apart from the impedance.
The GRS 4" Pioneer-copy would be a great option for a mid, but PRV might have a cheap one with more output. The PRV 4MR60-4 is a really sweet little driver, and sensitive too!
InDIYana Event Website
I imagine in a typical cabinet, the diffraction bump before baffle step loss kicks in might flatten it out a bit as well.
Thinking about this a bit more... if I were to build another budget monkey coffin, i.e. one with a 12" or 15" woofer, I would probably use the buyout 835004 Peerless 6.5"ers I have sitting on my shelf for the mids. They have smooth FR, high sensitivety, and low HD. They are probably the best sounding $10 driver I have heard from 100 to 2000 Hz. Unfortunately they just don't dig very deep no matter what box alignment you try.
The obvious choice for the top end would be those beastmode tweeters. Now THAT could be an absolute killer 3 way on a beer budget
15" seems really large for a monitor like that. Considering the placement of it being quite tipsy on stands. 8" - 10" would guve a reasonable cabinet size to use to place in a entertainment center.
What is everyones opinnions on larger mids for a 3way design. What are the benefits of going with 4" vs 5" or 6" aside from crossover point likely being higher on the 4". Also, say going mtm with 4" instead of a 5" or 6".
If you sit far enough to avoid beaming and driver integration issues, I prefer bigger mids anchored by even bigger woofers, but I don't have the space. Drivers yes, space no, skills so-so... But I still enjoy my 15" dayton woofers, RS150 mids and rs28F tweeters as my TV mains.
I'd want to copy something vintage
https://www.technics.com/global/chronicle/technics-7/
https://darko.audio/2019/09/retro-sound-with-jbls-l100-classic-loudspeaker/
or round
https://www.cabasse.com/en/cabasse_product/la-sphere/
If you're going to copy something vintage...
Sehlin Sound Solutions
My ears are ringing just from looking at those!
Larger mids will have higher sensitivity, depending on the woofer it may be difficult to find a small midrange that has the sensitivity requirement to pair with the woofer. The smaller mid will have a better match to the directivity of a tweeter, so the power response will be improved with a smaller midrange.
Even though you may look at a box simulation and decide that even at 300-400Hz crossover a 3" or 4" midrange has xmax for days, the distortion curves of a larger midrange are generally a lot better on the low end, even at 300-400Hz.
For a small midrange, the best bang for the buck I've used is a Vifa TG9, 4 ohm impedance keeps the sensitivity up, and it sounds great, can even be used without a tweeter to keep the high frequency directivity character of those vintage cone tweeters.
I've personally never felt the need for an MTM, I'd rather just spend a bit more on a better single midrange than use a pair of mediocre drivers.
If the weather is decent this weekend I think I'll throw together some MT test boxes for the Peerless 835004 and DA25BG08-06 I have on my shelf. They will sit on top of one of my multi-purpose 8" bass bins.
If you had the juice and space, I'm loving this setup in my truck(not sure how it carries over) dcs380/830869/dx25tg59.... 8" 2way to a 15 subwoofer? 😬😁
Mtm's sound different than TM's for sure. I cant 100% nail down what it is but I feel your enveloped with sound a bit more or perhaps wider soundstage with a MTM. Not saying its better or worse but a bit of a different sound.