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BASH 500S vs. Yung SD500-6 - Any experiences to share good or bad?
in DIY
Hi All - I've got an old Alpine SWR-12D4 car audio subwoofer that I'd like to turn into a garage subwoofer. Dual voice coil @ 4 ohms, so that means I need a decent plate amp to thump that driver at an 8 ohm load, since I highly doubt any standard issue plate amp is going to support a 2 ohm config. That brings me to either the Bash or Yung at a moderately inexpensive ~$250 range from PE. Does anyone have experiences good or bad to share on those two amps?
I figure I'll end up making a vented 2cuft enclosure to eek as much performance as I can from the subwoofer. For what it's worth, my DATS T/S parameters are attached.
Thanks!
Keith
Comments
From everything I can tell, the Yung amps all have highpasses built in at around 30Hz. This probably works fine for your average basshead, but for DIY guys, it kinda sucks.
I've used both, and the Bash seems to have a funny eq attached for better use with an EBS alignment. It also does have a relatively high infrasonic filter at 30 Hz.
The Yung with boost is powerful, and does well even with the so-called higher filter of the same at 30Hz. The difference being that it will extend very low and handle the load. Best used with bandpass and sealed boxes. Be advised the short warranty period, but mine is still holding it down.
The new Dayton 300 amp is no joke either....
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https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Xicon/280-CR15-6.2-RC?qs=AydNPRi2iNt6Oqe1990ryg==
Cheap and easy if you controll the frequency with your AVR.
Don’t buy the ones with 6db boost they suck in my opinion, the standard ones work great. No experience with Bash stuff.
https://www.jfcomponents.com/
Unless I'm completely mistaken, that's a resistor, sir.
What are you suggesting, Ken?
Placing those resistors in series with each coil then paralleling them?
I sure hope not.
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I have the SD500-6, and it's great with boost at 25Hz. The issue with the other Yungs is the boost is too high in frequency to aid in extension as it should. Most should set that frequency to 30Hz or below.
Of note about the DSP500/250, is that the boost management can be finicky to apply. I looked into them in the recent past. A PC is required to make the boost occur at 25Hz, whereas the boost at a higher Freq may not be and can be added on the amps encoder knob. I don't know why it's this way, but it is.
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I have a Bash 300 that has been functioning for a decade, With the Bash, you can change resistors to change the frequency and the amount of boost.
FWIW I hate plate amps and would buy used pro-amp.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/KM750--behringer-km750-power-amplifier
That's why teachers tell you to check your work...
The more I ponder my next step in my basement, the more I anticipate using pro audio amps for my subwoofers. They are currently powered by the Dayton 240W w/o boost but that is only because I got them for a price.
Next iteration will be to block the holes and add some binding posts.
For the sale price under $200, that Berry looks like a solid choice for powering subwoofers. Wire the Alpine for 8 ohm and bridge the Berry.
Good catch, Ken. If Keith can do bass management outboard it beats up on a plate amp.
Ok, so everyone loves a bargain, but let's start with the weight, 18lbs for a class AB that's 200w into 8 ohms and doubles into a 4 ohm load, so it doesn't use a linear power supply, but a SMPS, which isn't a deal breaker. Next look at the power draw on the rear panel, 400w. So you have a class AB amplifier outputting 400w into a 4 ohm load while only drawing 400w from the AC. I'll let you fellows ponder that one. As an example I happen to own an amp that actually does put out 200w into 8 ohms and 400w into 4 ohms and the electrical draw is 1500w. The bottom line is that Behringer amp specifications are as usual a bit exaggerated more like wishes.
Bash is a class H circuit, not AB.
I was talking about the Behringer amp that was linked, and the 200w amp that I referred to as drawing 1500w is an Aragon.
Guitar Center usually has a few used proamps reasonable $. The newer XLS Crowns have built in high and low pass filters
Sorry I misunderstood.
Unfortunately many low end pro amps, and especially Behringer are rated on more of a peak scale, for subwoofer work you can often cut the rated power in half or at least 2/3.
In any case, for a plate amp even though it’s a fairly old product, I’d probably go with the bash, they’re generally built well enough and are reliable. For versatility, the pro amp is a great option though I’d set the bar a bit higher than that Behringer. Peavy IPR2 and crown XLS look nice. The only reason my sub has a plate amp is because I got a great deal on a SVS 1000w plate.
We used to call those exaggerated power ratings I.L.S. ratings. I.L.S. =if lightning strikes.
Everyone loves to poo poo on berringer, for a shop subwoofer I bet it would be excellent.
Plate amps are convenient, but usually lacking in the cheaper options. I'd scourge around on craigslist, ebay or FB marketplace for a deal on a PA amp if you have the room for it.
Most pro amps including the Behringer are fan cooled and some are pretty noisy. When I was running pro amps they were in a separate room. My listening room is as sound proof as I could make it so no fans allowed.
Ron
Wow. Lots of great comments while I was taking care of the kiddo! The more I look at this, the more I lean back toward a used pro amp. Space isn't exactly a concern, and while I was trying to do this on the minimum side of expensive... this subwoofer can handle a lot more power than those plate amps can give at 8 ohms going full tilt. Not that I'll really need all that power, but heck... if I can do it, I might as well!
The built-in high pass / subsonic filter on the Crown XLS amps (gen 2) is 6db/oct @ 20 hz, non defeatable. That's better than some of those plate amps forcing me into it at 30Hz, and I'd need to slam this thing with rated power of 750W below 20Hz before I would exceed Xmax of 20mm. Even then, I'm below Xmech of 32mm. I won't really be trying to shake the tools off my walls, but it's nice to know I can try!
Tangential to the topic at hand, Kerry has the Behringer NX6000D. It's rated at 3000wpc and I've seen independent measurements at 1800wpc, so they're definitely exagerrated. You'd also need a dedicated 50 amp circuit to run it steady state, but even on a standard wall outlet, that amp controls an SDX12 better than lower powered amps that are accurately rated. It's just so much power and pretty cheap per watt.
If Behringer would just rate their amps honestly, they would have a better reputation. 3000wpc = 6000w total from a 20A 120v outlet which is 2400w, well hell, they just solved to worlds energy needs. But seriously, they are inexpensive for the power, but I would still be more likely to purchase a Crown, QSC or such.
How much additional instantaneous power can be realized by the power supply capacitors during a peak demand rather than continuous power?
Many of these high power amps are only rated for something like 1/3 duty cycle, expecting that normal use it not as a sine wave generator at max power. Also rated in the 1kHz range, not 20Hz.
That's hard to say, but I would guess that it uses a smps power supply, so there really isn't a capacitor bank to store a charge, in any event it's not going to produce more power than the electrical outlet feeding it......unless as Ken says "if struck by lightning. It's about marketing, and it's about as honest as those old Kraco car stereos that said 200w.
"Many of these high power amps are only rated for something like 1/3 duty cycle, expecting that normal use it not as a sine wave generator at max power. Also rated in the 1kHz range, not 20Hz"
Could you please clarify that ^ statement for us dummies, please? (me).
Only on 1/3 of the time, and off for 2/3's
Sounds good if this is a pulse-train application but audio is a highly variable load/demand with short pulses of high demand interspersed with varying levels of lower power demand, which is why (in my understanding) that SMPS (Switch-Mode_Power_Supplys)are suitable for audio applications. Yet they still need a reserve in order to meet the demands of peaks.
At any rate, I personally prefer class A/B amps in the winter time . . .
Class A or tubes are great winter amps.