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Turntable advice
My daughter who will turn 25 later this month is interested in vinyl. So, was thinly of getting her a turntable for her Bday. I don’t actually own one myself (yet) so reaching out to the community for input. Budget would be about $300. Feature set would ideally include a built in pre-amp, and a dust cover. I saw a couple on crutchfield and audio advisor by Music Hall and Audio Techica that looked like the might fit the bill. Again, just thought I’d throw this out there case anyone has ideas.
Comments
The monoprice one seems to be good for the price, good feature set and on sale:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=600046
The u turn one is supposed t be good as well:
https://uturnaudio.com/products/orbit-basic-turntable
The monoprice one has built in pre. So, all in a better price.
Thanks Silver! I didn’t even think of
Monoprice. The uturn units look sweet also.
I have the u turn and like it. I probably have an extra phono amp if you need it, send me a PM.
Wow! Thank you Ken, very generous offer.I may take you up on it if it turns out that she needs it. 🙂
IIRC, Uturn also has a decent phono amp.
Don't forget about about Fluance, also a player in the ~$300 turntable range.
I have a Project Carbon I’m pretty happy with. Mind you I don’t know the price of all these anymore but something to look at.
https://www.jfcomponents.com/
I have the Audio Technica and also bought it for my son for xmas a few years ago. It does really well in "best of" lists for BUDGET turntables. One thing it has that quite a few don't is "auto return" for the tonearm. I think for purists this is actually frowned upon as gimmicky, but for someone new to records who may leave it unattended (or fall asleep) as the record ends, this is a nice feature to have.
Many of the others may have this too, but just pointing it out.
Great !
My advice is to skip the vinyl craze alltogether. IMHO its is for people who already have large record collections that they want to listen to again, and younger people who have lots of disposable cash and think retro is cool. Listening to music in that format is expensive now, and storage of vinyl takes up space. You have to clean the discs, the turntable can be prone to feedback from bass, bass amplitude on disc is limited by groove spacing, etc. Each side is of an LP holds a max of 22 minutes of music IIRC so at least you can get some exercise when you have to continually get up to change to a new one. The SQ potential is lower than with digital music. Honestly, I just don't get why vinyl is popular.
Ditto
I believe that part of vinyl's popularity is due to the fact that a great deal of it is mastered differently than the digital versions, so there generally is a sound difference, but that's just a guess
There are a lot of record stores where a large majority of the records are used. I typically pay $2 to $6 for a used record. I also buy "lots" and boxed sets off of eBay.
I know folks poo on vinyl since it is technically inferior. But I've always had an interest in history. Understanding and being able to experience things through the lens of older technology. It makes you better understand why things were the way they were. The experience is not necessarily always worse, often just different. And that is much of the attraction.
I've got an Audio Technica AT-LPW40WN. Carbon fiber tonearm. I finally blew through the factory elliptical stylus so I upgraded to the AT-VMN95ML (rated to last 3x longer and maybe a slight bump in sq). I picked up all the tools to check the setup and it was all spot on. It never skips, even on pressings that reviews seem to indicate is notorious for doing so.
They are about $380 now, but I found a few refurbs for $270
https://amazon.com/Audio-Technica-at-LPW40WN-Belt-Drive-Turntable-Renewed/dp/B07ZJTLD8W/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=AT-LPW40WN&sr=8-3
Looks like the next model down is $200 with aluminum tonearm and the silver look is pretty snazzy IMO. Comes with a conical stylus that seems to be rated to last ~50% longer than the elliptical but might not sound quite as good?
https://amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT-LPW30TKR-Manual-Drive-Turntable/dp/B09RFHRTVB/ref=sr_1_6?crid=24CD7JU2NFR0Y&keywords=AT-LPW40WN&qid=1689687263&sprefix=at-lpw40wn%2Caps%2C64&sr=8-6&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.f5122f16-c3e8-4386-bf32-63e904010ad0
Though It sounds like the Fluance RT81 is some pretty stiff competition too (and a few color options)..
https://amazon.com/Fluance-Turntable-Cartridge-Adjustable-Counterweight/dp/B01F2EXIFM/ref=pd_vtp_h_pd_vtp_h_sccl_3/143-4425620-6115652?pd_rd_w=V1hOm&content-id=amzn1.sym.e16c7d1a-0497-4008-b7be-636e59b1dfaf&pf_rd_p=e16c7d1a-0497-4008-b7be-636e59b1dfaf&pf_rd_r=ZPKD6B8Z457CB600DP4G&pd_rd_wg=cSSSQ&pd_rd_r=7e292740-2e6c-4910-8945-dde0cf0e3e50&pd_rd_i=B01F2EXIFM&psc=1
Because I have music on vinyl that will probably never be found anywhere else, and even though it may not be 'perfect sound forever' a clean disk spun on a good table and needle, can sound very good. Convenience ... yeah, not with vinyl.
I just cannot figure out why all these people want vacuum tubes in their audio system when we know they are inferior to modern offerings.
Nor vinyl, nor reel-to-reel? And toss in an original (refurbished) GAS Son of Ampzilla...
...for those of us who see audio as a unique combo experience of an art and a science. Call me crazy, but I long more for a 1973 Carrera RS than an new 911. And FWIW tubes in Pre's / buffers can be magic. But then again I'm an old (ok, very old) audio nut.
The 'young ones' love vinyl; most of my nieces have chosen that format it and regardless of any arguments, I'm not going to pour cold water on their choice.
I like LPs and CDs, play both and there are good and bad recordings on both formats. Not so keen on cassettes any more. Our old Technics SL-D2 direct drive turntable with Ortofon 'MC-1 Turbo' high output moving coil cartridge sound just fine.
Geoff
I think the social aspect of going to a record store with friends is part of it for many people. Some of us oldsters have fond memories of doing just that back in the day.
I have a collection of vintage TTs and as much as I enjoy monkeying around with them, I end up scrolling through my playlists on Tidal or Spotify 95% of the time. It's just too easy and a dirty screen on my phone won't cause clicks & pops.
Due to the limitations of vinyl, the music is usually mastered differently and for many - better.
The entire digital vs. analog debate really boils down to mastering differences. In the early days of CD they hadn't quite figured that out. However, IMO, between the early days of poor mastering and the onset of the loudness wars there was a golden age of CD mastering when they were every bit the equal of the best mastered vinyl.
I am 100% digital here, I have around a terabyte of music ripped to a hard drive in FLAC. I use old school Windows Media Player for playback on my PCs - and Amazon Music for streaming. I will not be going back to CD any time soon.
I may eventually pick up a record player since so many of my favorite albums from the early to mid 90s have been released on vinyl, just for the novelty of it.
Keep in mind guys that a cheap DAC will always sound far better than a cheap turntable. A turntable being mechanical simply has too many precision pieces to manufacture as cheaply as a DAC with a handful of smt parts. Enjoy it whatever you're using.
Thanks so much for all the input guys.
I ditched my turntable (was cheap - one of those AM/FM stereo, cassette, turntable on top and cheap speaker combos circa early 80's) as soon as i got my first CD player. The two things i think are cool about vinyl are the cover art, and the fact that listening requires some effort and is a more active experience. ie, get the disc out of sleeve, clean it, place it on platter, set the needle, flip it over for side 2 etc. And rather than just click to "Skip ahead" you have to pick up the needle, find the next track and set it down. So, more conducive to listening to a complete album, in order, as the artist intended. So many classic albums I believe the artist intended the audience to listen to in entirety, start to finish. So I would like to encourage her to get to know some of these classics in that way. I will buy her Abbey Road, Carole King Tapestry, Pink Floyd DSOTM, Dylans "Blood on the Tracks" and a few more to get her started.
I'd agree to a certain extent... Digital, being what it is, creates a bit of a plateau (unless you actively mess with the data to make it worse)... Where mechanical devices can always be made less well. But we've been churning out relatively precise parts for a looong time now. So a reasonably priced unit should do pretty well. I wouldn't be surprised if super expensive turntables are heavily limited by the capability of the medium itself.
I am "kinda" with Charlie on this, but for different reason. I setup a solid vinyl table a few years ago (Technics 1200, Ortofon Blue), and eventually found a very good preamp. The sound was good. It was as good as my considerably more expensive CD player, but I found myself not using the vinyl because flipping records became tedious. I MUCH prefer my current TIDAL music customized lists. It's just so much more convenient.
My CD player is now collecting dust in a cabinet.
I don't agree that a good dac will always sound better than a good turntable. There are some analog pressings from the 1960s (1964 Al Hirt, 1964 Julie London for me) that sounded better on vinyl. These are the only two I tested and vinyl won in both cases. The differences were minor, but my mild preference was vinyl. Strangely, some things were almost completely missing on digital. I don't have a pervasive explanation.
My partial explanation is that if the recording was originally analog (on tape most likely), then an analog pressing on vinyl involves LESS processing than converting the analog tape to digital. This is a gross simplification though. There are so many more issues that I don't understand about recordings.
So... maybe enable your daughters vinyl wishes simply because she is your daughter and listening to music is good : >) !!.
Searching for vinyl was kinda' fun.
I sold my vinyl setup and records perhaps 5 years ago. I have no regrets.
I'm fortunate to have a few fellow audio enthusiasts in my neighborhood. One of my neighbors has a dedicated listening room with fairly high end gear, including a nice tube amp, and a big vinyl collection. We listened to CD's for a while and there was a good bit of glare in the crossover region. We moved to vinyl, and all the objectionable sounds just melted away - although I could immediately tell there was more compression (less dynamic range).
The funny/frustrating thing is that his tube integrated amp is only a couple years old and includes a built-in DAC, which is probably pretty good. But, due to budget constraints, he is still running analog out on his old Arcam CD player. His audio dealer has an idea on a suitable digital cable, but it is not in the cards budget-wise right now.
I offered to bring over any old digital cable I could scrounge up and it would be a dramatic improvement, but he hasn't taken me up on that yet...
Sehlin Sound Solutions
Not a sure thing that the analog out would not sound better than using the digital out to the dac in the pre. I’ve had a couple setups where that was not the case. No need to spend $ on a digital cable. 1 and 0 is all it has to do ;-)
Sorry Scott, I missed your last sentence. Yes, any old digital cable - and then switch between in;it’s and see if an diff.
The glare is definite because of the shiny surface of the CD. That's why vinyl records don't have it! Not shiny...
i use a green marker on my CD's to cut the glare.