Suggestions for Nearfield Full Range Drivers . . .

Steve_Lee

. . . For mixing - preferably in smallish < 12 Liter boxes.

Thinking that 6.5 ~ 8 inch diameter frames would work from f3 of 60 to near 20K but haven't really spent much time using them in the past.

Anything jump to mind?

kenrhodes

You might want to specify what your expectations are. There are a lot of full range "monitors" that are made to sound meh. Typically used to test how the mix will sound for those listening from a radio: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/C50A--behringer-behritone-c50a-active-30-watt-full-range-reference-studio-monitor

If you are looking for something to truly master on you might want to consider the opposite of a full range and get a desktop 3 way similar to barefoot footprint01. A good 2 way 5inch or bigger could probably fit the bill as well.

Steve_Lee

That ^ one is sure to sound like sh*t; expertly crafted from damaged cones and rejected factory 2nds:

But you are spot-on - looking for something flattish right now that can be EQ'd to a Harman curve to listen to my mixes in another room more like what the average person has at their PC - NOT trying to master (I'm a long way off on needing to do that, but - eventually, yes - just not on these drivers).

The 3-way compact is on my agenda similar to Wolf's stacked TM/MW to the side using a ribbon, dome Mid & 8" Woofer.

Added:

"barefoot footprint01" - very cool concept except I question the side mounted MW's - is that going to give the same punch/directivity to the kick and snare drums as a front firing system?

Thanks, Ken.

Steve_Lee

More from Barefoot . . .

OOOoooh! (Very nice):

Are you affiliated with this group, Ken?

Wolf

I have one more of those brewing too...
E150HE44/W3-2141/RT4001, PR loaded with the E180PR, dubbed Amaranthine. Artistic vision and 0.23ft^3 this time.

Steve_Lee

Can't wait to see this ^ creation, Ben . . .

Wolf

It will be a feast for the eyes...

kenrhodes

The CHP 90 looks like a good option. After baffle step you will likely need a "filter" to get a more flat response. With a full range I typically let the high frequency rise and/or aim for flat response at 10-20 degrees off axis. Full range can sound very good within it's limitations.

Steve_Lee

Thanks for suggesting the Mark Audio drivers, Ken - haven't tried them yet.

Went looking and these CHN-110 6.75" Full Rangers look like they meet my desires with good sensitivity and 8mm Xmax (DSP will make them happy) in small box --> https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-6-fullrange/markaudio-chn110-silver-6.75-full-range/

In the cab design notes they say to AVOID ACOUSTIC FOAM - is this due to off-gassing of the foam reacting with the driver membrane/components/adhesives or ???

I think I will grab a pair . . . I have that super wool/felt from Jule Fidelity on hand (Good stuff) --> https://www.jfcomponents.com/product-page/premium-recycled-wool-felt-cabinet-damping-material-12-x-24-x-1-2-thick

kenrhodes

One thing I always consider is how is a woofer that large making sound outside of its natural pistonic movements. Essentially we are listening to cone breakup as the tweeter. Mitigating/using the cone breakup to sound good is where the compromises gets very tricky. I suspect that the paper cone breakup will be more pleasent than the aluminum. But I don't have any personal experiance with these drivers.

Tom_S

The CHN-110 look decent, but I've read the manufacture's graphs are not quite what we normally expect to see here. The ones on Madisound lack quite a bit of info - like smoothing. There's an interesting discussion on ASR's site about these.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/markaudio-chn-110-building-and-comparisons-with-genelec-8340-sam-monitors.46176/

Steve_Lee

They have shipped already but I thank you for your replies (^ above).

I'll check the link and see what they sound like eventually.

Steve_Lee

I've read up to post # 40 at the ASR link posted above and all it is telling me so far is that I picked the exact driver I needed for nearfield (Desktop) and possibly as rear satellites on my HT system . . . 12 liters, DSP, good bass, smooth . . . what's wrong with them?

johnny5jz

I just build a set of Frugal Horn Joan cabinets for the CHN-110 to give full range drivers another shot. I am super impressed with them. I don't have any filters at the moment, and I really like them. They are not perfect, but I really like listening to them. The bass from the frugal horn is also really impressive. They don't have a lot of punch based on their size, but they dig deep.

a4eaudio

@Tom_S said:
The CHN-110 look decent, but I've read the manufacture's graphs are not quite what we normally expect to see here. The ones on Madisound lack quite a bit of info - like smoothing. There's an interesting discussion on ASR's site about these.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/markaudio-chn-110-building-and-comparisons-with-genelec-8340-sam-monitors.46176/

I read the thread and wasn't discouraged to buy Markaudio. However, I did notice that everyone kept claiming the Thread Starter was going to post measurements and I don't think he ever did. (I could have missed it as I was looking on my phone.) When I get to using mine in the spring, I'll measure and post on- and off-axis on IB and in a cabinet, along with distortion.

a4eaudio

@Steve_Lee said:
They have shipped already but I thank you for your replies (^ above).

Fedex just came to my snow-covered house with these...

Steve_Lee

@a4eaudio said:

@Tom_S said:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/markaudio-chn-110-building-and-comparisons-with-genelec-8340-sam-monitors.46176/

I read the thread and wasn't discouraged to buy Markaudio. However, _I did notice that everyone kept claiming the Thread Starter was going to post measurements and I don't think he ever did. (I could have missed it as I was looking on my phone.) _

See post #113, 114, 115; 133 & 167 at link ^, David.

a4eaudio

@Steve_Lee said:
See post #113, 114, 115; 133 & 167 at link ^,

Thanks. I must have dozed off around post #100 LOL

tajanes

For whats it worth - my near on axis measurement was directly in line with the company posted measurement. At that point, when I got the LP where I wanted it (I focused on 15 degrees off-ctr) I went to the super-tweeter and got its passive HP dialed in, adjusted components on both filters and just measured from that point per the combo. Your measurements- per your driver placement on baffle, and going full range, will of course be the driver (contour filters, etc). IMO a lovely driver as I used it as very extended mid in a 3way. A nice full / broad ranger with decent Xmax to work with. I’ll be interested in your measurements and thoughts.

tktran

It would be interesting to see if it measures like the spec sheet.

the 2 models/samples (now discontinued Alpair 10M/P) measured at hificompass.com were puzzling.

Steve_Lee

Some modelling for sealed in 10 liters (0.353 cu ft):

Group Delay:

I'll be using these at 1m so that 10W model is absurd . . .

Steve_Lee

Compact Horizontal 3way studio monitor concept . . . (for the drumming/recording rack).

Woofer: https://www.parts-express.com/Epique-E180HE-44-7-DVC-MMAG-Subwoofer-4-Ohm-per-Coil-295-104

Modeled SPL in 10 liters w/DSP:

Midrange: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-3-fullrange/sb-acoustics-sb10pgc21-4-3-full-range/

Tweeter: https://www.parts-express.com/HiVi-RT1.3WE-Isodynamic-Tweeter-297-421
. . . with either a removed(if possible) faceplate or cut-down to rectangular faceplate - anyone know if this thing can be used without the faceplate or will it all fall apart with it removed? (I really want a small planer/ribbon in there).

(edited for thpellin errer).

PWRRYD

Cannot take it apart.

Steve_Lee

Thanks, man!

Any experiences with this little round guy?

https://www.parts-express.com/Beston-RT003C-Round-Ribbon-Tweeter-277-114

a4eaudio

A few comments:

• Epique: Low sensitivity. But that may not matter to you, especially if you are going active and/or plenty of power on hand. If you are trying to get low 30's Hz then probably your only choice.
• Mid/full-range: The SB Acoustics was used in Rick Craig's Integrity and got quite good reviews. A low-price, low distortion mid is the Dayton PC105. There was an old thread at PETT that measured a bunch of 4-inch drivers and this may have been the lowest distortion one. If your are not trying to save money, the Dayton RS100 is great.
• Tweeter: The Dayton AMT2-4 is a little more than an inch smaller than the HiVi RT1.3WE. Even a little smaller than the Dayton, will go lower (although probably not needed in your case, and is lower distortion is the Airborne R4001 but you'd need to order it from Solen in Canada.

Steve_Lee

Wow! Thanks for this insight, David.

I have some dimensional constraints to work with here and the major one is the vertical height of the mid/tweeter stack which is 8" MAX.
Width is 15" MAX (replacing a pair of NS10M's with this design eventually).
So the available baffle area for drivers is 14" width by 7" in height.

This is nearfield use from 1 meter to 2 meters max for sanity checks.
These things must be ruler flat (not tilted down nor Harman curved) for production work/checks-in-room.

I'm looking for 3" diameter mids/tweeters to fit within the height constraint and look pleasing with the other drivers if possible.

I will be making a larger set of these 3 ways for my shop shelf using 8" woofers and in that case the 4" drivers you mention are more suitable and may include your expertly crafted waveguides with the TN25 tweeters . . .

a4eaudio

Airborne RT4001 is 3.35" diameter and RS100 is 3.86 diameter (the Sd is pretty much a 3.5" driver).
Not pushing these, as I'm indifferent, just letting you know.

Another (small and cheap) AMT is the Dayton AMT Mini-8 but I think it may need to cross quite high.

Wolf

I would use the slightly smaller PC midbass for the mid if you have height restraints versus the PC105. PC83-4, as I used it in the Purveyor and liked it a lot. Both are nice mids.
The Beston I used in the Stances, and it drops like a rock below 3k. Liked it, but not everyone's preference.
I thought JohnH took his RT1.3 (older model) apart to paint them. I could be wrong...
If you want upper scale, I'd recommend the W3-2141, and the Airborne RT4001 (Dayton AMT2-4 is similar) for smaller footprint. Those are what I'll be using in my Amaranthine, but with the E150HE44, and a 0.23ft^3 PR box.

Steve_Lee

Thanks for the ^ mind food guys - I'll cogitate on it for a bit.
I do have a quad of PC83-8's but those are slated for a MTM over a pair of 8" woofers (bass bin) at some point - nice little driver.

If Mr. Hollander could confirm or deny concerning the RT1.3 disassembly, that would be nice as I have a spare pair here . . . or maybe those wind-up in the 8" woofer version of this design . . . (hmmm . . . yeah!, that's the ticket . . .)

jr@mac

https://www.arylic.com/products/air-motion-transformer?variant=44230082560237

They put stuff on sale pretty regular. I have the AMT-7 model, and Brad tested them on his big board. IIRC they should do 3500 all day. Less than 3" diameter.

Almost any speaker is a legitimate upgrade to the Yamaha.

jr@mac

I just found this on AliExpress:
$45.61 | 2Pcs 30W AMT Tweeter HiFi Ribbon Tweeter Speaker Air Motion Transformer Car Loudspeaker AVT Driver Neodymium Home Movie Theater
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mN5iCxD

These were used in the Dayton budget speakers.