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New - Matched Pair - Dayton Audio - Carbon Fiber M/T combo . . .

Steve_LeeSteve_Lee
edited January 12 in Related

These are very interesting to me so I bought a pair (awaiting delivery).
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-CFCOMBO-4MP-3-4and-2-Carbon-Fiber-Tweeter-Mid-Combo-Matched-Sets-4-Ohm-285-412
Less than 1/2 the price of the Morel M/T combo - TM4055-8.
Following are the published particulars.

3/4" CF Tweeter:



2" CF Mid-Dome:



Thoughts/Observations solicited.

(Edited 1-11-2025 to add info links)

tktran
«1

Comments

  • WolfWolf

    I think 600 and 3k look great as far as HD and polars go.

    Steve_Lee

    InDIYana Event Website

  • tktrantktran
    edited January 12

    Hi Steve,

    Have you chosen your woofers?

    Exact crossover points depend on CTC distance, how dynamic (short term maximum SPL) your goals are (usually dictated by woofers)

    I would choose 4K for the tweeter, 1KH for the 2” dome and look for a pair of 7-9”‘ woofers that meets your SPL/extension targets. Getting a 10+” to play cleanly past 1KHz is a bit tougher…

    If you end up choosing a smaller or single woofer, you can relax the requirements for the 2” and 3/4” domes, lower XO points can be used…

    Steve_Lee
  • Steve_LeeSteve_Lee

    Thanh, I have several Woofers to choose from (insane collection getting larger . . .) but the SS18W/8531G00 pair I have possess excellent roll-off on both ends and sound natural so I think those will be best for this combo/nearfield project (< 2m) - SPL will be pretty tame as they will be for checking mixes as a FLAT Studio Monitor in addition to my primary mixing standard headphones (SSA-VSX system).

    I plan to also build mid (>2m, <4m) and far-field (>4m) monitors which is why I have been collecting & testing mid-domes of recent.

    The 5" B&W FST mids you graciously assisted me with obtaining will probably get introduced in one of those future builds - most likely the far-field units as domes seem best used in the near-field and cones in the far . . .

    Each type will be DSP/Active so all suggested XO's will be tried and whoever comes up with a passive circuit later which makes my ears and measurement mics happy will likely get adopted for the ease of portability/swapping-out.

  • Steve_LeeSteve_Lee

    How do we get rid of that Z ripple at 8KHz on the Mid Dome?
    Zoebel?

  • EggguyEggguy

    I was considering buying them yesterday so I did a passive XO with VCad. I came up with 4K 4th ord. acoustic. I was disappointed that I needed so many parts to deal with mid break ups and tweeter wonky impedance. I did get a nice deep and symmetrical reverse null however. I will be interested in your listening impressions of those ridged domes. It seems to me that suppressing that mid ringing at 8-12K is of primary concern.

    Steve_Lee
  • Steve_LeeSteve_Lee

    Monsieur Oeuf,

    Looking at this little schematic as an eggsample, could you please place a 4.3 uf capacitor in series with a 3.75 Ohm resistor across the Mid-dome's terminals after the XO circuit and tell us what happens to the Z ripple/FR prediction in VituixCad, S'il vous plaît?

    Merci d'avance.

  • EggguyEggguy

    Steve_Lee
  • EggguyEggguy

    Steve_Lee
  • EggguyEggguy

    Here it is with 8.2 uf and 4 Ohms

    Steve_Lee
  • Steve_LeeSteve_Lee

    Merci beaucoup mon ami

  • PWRRYDPWRRYD

    Now that you've got a Zobel, don't forget your L-Pad.

    Steve_Lee
  • Steve_LeeSteve_Lee
    edited January 13

    Getting ahead of the process ^ PWRRYD. (you are of course, ultimately correct).

    We need to kill the Z issue/peak electrically on the mid-dome then break in the T/M combo, apply the electrical filter, then using DSP via 3 discrete amps find the appropriate SPL levels for the chosen cabinet alignment before choosing the electrical L-Pads for the M/T, Oui?

    (edited to remove repeated repeated word)

  • Steve_LeeSteve_Lee

    From the Notes in data package:

  • Steve_LeeSteve_Lee
    edited January 14

    M/T FR w/Passive XO attempt #1 tonight using 15* off-axis FRD & ZMA data:

    Mid & Tweet:

    Took more than just a Zobel (needed a notch or something cool-sounding, like that):

    Try it out on your modelling system - phase looks OK to me but I will scrape off all the warts using DSP/PEQ . . .

  • Steve_LeeSteve_Lee
    edited January 14

    And then added . . . Obligatory Fallopian polarity & Impedance graphs:

  • EggguyEggguy

    I cant remember how you intend to power these speakers. A two channel amp per speaker? active XO 600 Hz and passive XO at 3K ?

  • Steve_LeeSteve_Lee
    edited January 14

    I haven't quite decided the specifics as I became hyper-focused upon killing that peak at 8KHz then went XO happy with my success so what you suggest is quite likely - just need to decide upon the actual woofers to be employed - going active XO at ~ 600Hz would afford a lot of flexibility and just PEQ'ing the M/T combo would be sweet as well.

    I do Have a MiniDSP 2X4HD sleeping in a box and a pair of FX Audio FX-502A amps next to them for a rainy day . . .

    How would you use these drivers if you were to obtain a set?

  • EggguyEggguy

    I must confess that my reason was mostly aesthetic. The hexagonal perforated grills matched my woofers on the shelf. I was considering going all passive, Three way or 3 1/2 way. I will try your XO on Vcad. I notice the tweeter is contributing to the overall response at its Fs. Might sound icky

    Steve_Lee
  • EggguyEggguy

    Also, don't forget, I am still a new guy.

    Steve_Lee
  • Steve_LeeSteve_Lee

    I am nowhere as experienced at this stuff as you guys and far less interested in passives - they are maddening at times - fickle, arbitrary and lack surgical precision unlike DSP although some problems with drivers must be mitigated electrically as JR and Wolf are quite adamant about - I get it, I just dislike the effort/frustration doing it with passives.

    Concerning the tweeter and Fs - only listening will tell and these squiggly lines can't let me listen to them.

    Let us know what you come up with, Sir.

    Best!

  • Steve_LeeSteve_Lee

    Scroll down this page and see if it gives you any ideas for covering less expensive drivers to match your desired "hexagonal perforated grills":

    https://www.amazon.com/metal-speaker-grill-material/s?k=metal+speaker+grill+material

    6thplanet
  • Steve_LeeSteve_Lee

    https://www.parts-express.com/3-Black-Metal-Speaker-Grill-260-453?quantity=1

  • Steve_LeeSteve_Lee
    edited January 14

    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/tweeters/lpg-25nfa-1-textile-dome-tweeter/

    ^ This is my back-up to the CF tweeter due to its wonky FR above 14KHz and it has hexagonal grille holes, Eggie . . .

  • kenrhodeskenrhodes

    I would highly recomend using the circuit blocks if you are new to corossover design. Here is the stock 2nd order crossover set to 3k .5q. I only added C1 to tank the breakup in the mid.

    Steve_Lee
  • Steve_LeeSteve_Lee

    Very much appreciate your chiming-in and effort here, Ken.
    Thanks!
    (Good help is hard to find . . .)

  • tktrantktran
    edited January 15

    Steve,

    Please please me a PM with your measurements in a zip file, and we can work through this together.

    (I’m been all active since only 2020)

    Steve_Lee
  • EggguyEggguy

    Now you be gettin some where.

    Steve_Lee
  • EggguyEggguy

    Sorry, I don't know any French words

    Steve_Lee
  • a4eaudioa4eaudio

    I'm 99% sure that "gettin" is French.

    Steve_LeeEggguy
  • Steve_LeeSteve_Lee
    edited January 15

    OK, after more modeling it looks like the 8" MCM 55-5670 Woofer w/ DSP in 14L is what I need to use as the mid-woofers . . . gonna be a tight fit in the rack . . .

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