What should I build?

jr@mac

Utilizing any number of Rival woofers and Viawave tweeters, that is? Let's assume I probably have at least a pair of most of the models RAD sold the last year or so. 

We will also set the Taiga as my reference - those that have heard it will know what I am targeting.

Thoughts? 

Gowa

R176-P-08

rjj45

I haven't heard the the Taiga - but
After living with a R176-CP and Hygeia 4001, I love the bass, but I just want a bit more. I'm moving to a Rival MTM design.
Certainly have enough Rival woofers on hand to play with.

Nicholas_23

Out of curiosity , what is/was the smallest driver RAD has sold that you might have ? 

jr@mac

4.5"

PWRRYD

Dipole mid...

jr@mac

I have yet to be overwhelmed by open back miss, to be honest. 

PWRRYD

Don't call me miss

Lol

jr@mac

Oops, lol

In all seriousness - I have heard some good open back designs, but for whatever reason I have not been blown away by them. I get the dipole bass, though - very nice with enough cone and excursion on demand. My living situation does not allow for that type of build, though. 

 

jr@mac

Off the top of my head, the following middle to upper tier drivers are around here somewhere:

Rival coated carbon paper pulp 7" Qty: 4

Rival uncoated glass fiber 7" Qty: 2

Rival poly 7" Qty: 4

Rival aluminum 7" Qty: 2

Rival aluminum 8" Qty: 2

Rival aluminum 4.5" Qty: 4

Rival coated kevlar 7" Qty: 4

Rival kevlar 5" Qty: 2

Motus 5" Qty: 2

SB black anodized 5" Qty: 2

Wavecor nomex 8 ohm 4.5" Qty: 2

Dayton RS28T-F Qty: 2

Dayton RS52F Qty: 2

HiVi F8 Qty: 4

Beston RT002A Qty: 2

Viawave first gen Qty: 2

Viawave second gen Qty: 2

Gradient square frame AMT Qty: 4

Gradient 5" midrange Qty: 2

Weird OEM XT25 using faceplate of the SC90 but a better chamber and a schnazzy gold phase plug

Vifa DX25BG60 Qty: 2 beast mode dome tweeter

Dayton DSA 8" Qty: 2 I just ran across the Voice Coil review of the 6.5" DSA and will take another look at the 8". I liked the 6.5" quite a bit - definite upgrade over that shitass paper cone Designer 6.5"

Gradient Axis 5" Qty: 2

Gradient Axis 7" Qty: 2

MCM 55-3669 black anodized 5-1/4" most under-rated driver ever


Obviously I cannot build a pair using every damn driver I have, but I can manage to store another pair of towers and a couple bookshelfs. I am pretty sure I am also going to build a couple pair using the HiVi F8 to market to local and semi-local studios, so lets assume they are not on the docket. Just have to settle on the TM portion at this time. Probably the Dayton dome mid and the Dayton waveguide tweeter, but no commitment yet. 

I am also not interested in building other people's designs - I love the Y in DIY (also the 'why', but that is a different story).

Due to some interesting circumstances, I will probably have some extended time off this winter to tinker - and will be willing to trade a few drivers for some CNC baffle work here and there. 

rjj45

Damn, JR! That's a stash!

Gowa

I bet the Motus U H 1 3 0 P W 1 would be nice with that tweeter.

Kornbread

jr@mac said:

Gradient square frame AMT Qty: 4

Gradient 5" midrange Qty: 2

Gradient Axis 5" Qty: 2

Gradient Axis 7" Qty: 2

MCM 55-3669 black anodized 5-1/4" most under-rated driver ever

   I've been listening to some MCM Gradient Axis 55-5615s for several months.  I like em'.    

rjj45

The Gradients are v good drivers, got a pair of GA 4 inch TMs on my desk and my wife's. Wish I had bought more on the closeout.

Wolf

I would think a dual 7" RIval as woofer, Motus mid, and either the Viawave or XT schnazzy.

S7910

jr@mac said:

Rival coated carbon paper pulp 7"

Wavecor nomex 8 ohm 4.5"

Viawave second gen

Here's my vote for a TMWW tower.

R-Carpenter

Waveguide loaded GRT.

I'll provide the guides.

jhollander

R-Carpenter said:

Waveguide loaded GRT.

I'll provide the guides.

Plus any of the smooth Rival 7-inchers.  Nice 2 way. Might be fun to compare all the Rival 2 ways next year. 

JasonP

2x Rival 7" in MLTL

MOTUS 5"

Viawave 1st Gen

rjj45

JasonP said:

2x Rival 7" in MLTL

MOTUS 5"

Viawave 1st Gen

100% agree. effing  awesome.

jr@mac

Good thoughts here! I will start planning the cabinets for a pair of 7" Rival, Motus mid, and one of the Viawave tweeters. 

Depending on weather - or however I can barter with those individuals with fancy CNC shit in their garage/shop...

I will be putting a lot of the design process on public display, might be fun to call it a MAC collaboration when all is said and done!

6thplanet

Those Motus units are wicked awesome looking, definitely OB jewelery!

Gowa

Judging from the specs, the Motus look very nice indeed and they are similar in price to CSS and Wavecor.

Wolf

...and the Motus 5" sounded great too! Mark's (Psycoacoustics) project's only downfall was that it really needed a highpass on the bottom to keep from overexcursion. Since he used his with a sub, it was of no concern. Making it a mid will very well relieve the stressful issues. Note- with clever filtering, it is capable of obtaining a 1st order slope through the xover before hitting 3rd order rolloff at the knee. It's a very different kind of response.

DanP

jr@mac said:

Oops, lol

In all seriousness - I have heard some good open back designs, but for whatever reason I have not been blown away by them. I get the dipole bass, though - very nice with enough cone and excursion on demand. My living situation does not allow for that type of build, though. 

 

This has been my exact experience as well.  The added "air" or "presence" imparted by an open backed mid has always come across to me as benign at best or distracting at worst.  Open baffle bass, on the other hand, when sufficient Vd is available, always sounds very clean, uncolored and dynamic - moreso than traditional loading techniques.  When time allows, I will definitely be revisiting the Hurricanes format and enclosing the mid.

Dan

R-Carpenter

DanP said:

open backed mid has always come across to me as benign at best or distracting at worst.

I agree. It can shine on some recordings but over all it's not something I would build again. It also adds difficulty to the crossover design because the rear wave of the driver has a different frequency response than the front. Not a straight measurement any more because of the long delay of the reflected signal. So, we are basically creating a specific hump in a delayed reflected midrange signal only to account for it in the total arriving response.

jholtz

Since I'm an open back mid guy, I'll offer a dissenting opinion.

Curt and I have been designing open back mid speakers since 2007 so there have been many designs starting with the Statements and the latest being the Bordeaux. Our goal has always been to get the music out of the "box" that most closed back mid speakers offer. That doesn't make them bad, just not the sound that I find similar to a real performance. The sound-stage is simply too shallow to my ears. That's my taste in sound which may not be yours. YMMV....

I'm also guessing anyone that doesn't like open back mids doesn't like di-pole speakers either. Open back mids offer similar sound-stage to di-pole designs with out the placement issues.

BTW, if it's too open, put in more foam and problem solved.

Jim

PWRRYD

I've really liked what I've heard so far with my OB projects.  I can't say they've trumped all of my monopole projects.  But I've liked it enough to continue to pursue it with better and better drivers.  Who knows though...  I started out with boxed woofer and OB full ranger.  Then a boxed woofer with OB mid and dipole tweeter.  Now working on dipole woofer and mid with a conventional dome tweeter.  I might end up with a dipole woofer and boxed mid/tweet.  It's like a revolution, I might end up right back where I started with full monopole 3 ways ;-)

jhollander

I have been disappointed with Ob bass.  I want the thump and pressure. I like Ob mid clarity. It makes cheap drivers sound good. 

PWRRYD

Just a thought here guys... let's take this good OB discussion over to my latest OB thread or start a new thread and not derail JR's.

tajanes

Many designs get 'there' (bass) by using W's with >1 qts to compensate for rear wave cancellation- not the best (my 2 cents) for good defined / detailed bass - 'course less than optimum designed ported boxes can sound like a 1 note wonder...  I've been partial to Maggies for the mids/voice range so for me (with enough room behind speakers) the boxless mids are the way to go.  I found using dsp (and selecting W qts within a controlled range) provides solid realistic bass.

But that's what makes diy speaker building sooo much fun- design towards ones' goals and preferences.  And the events MAC puts on are full of great and different approaches.