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Big discounts on Heil AMT's

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  • Just ordered a pair of the Faital 10FE200

  • Yeah, what was it, 2 years ago about this time of the year, they had the big blowout sale?
    Snagged 2 pairs, still on the shelf waiting on my sorry ass.
    Pairing with that 10FE200 should be heaven!

    PWRRYD
    Don, Donno, or "Hey you" all work for me, But never "Mr Johnson"
  • Hey Donnie ( you can call me nicky if you want), I worry the woofers might be too sensitive

  • Hard to say, but I think those 2 will work. The 10FE200 looks like a true 96 dB passband, but you will lose 3-4 dB for BSC.
    Unfortunately, it's hard to get accurate sensitivity specs for the ESS Heils.
    This may help:
    Listed as 96 dB here:
    https://adelcom.net/ESS HEIL Tweeter Replacements.htm
    Listed as 92 dB here:
    https://diy.midwestaudio.club/discussion/873/big-discounts-on-heil-amts#latest

    Unfortunately, both specs at 1W/1M - but the ESS Heils are also 4 ohm drivers listed as 1W/1M,
    so the specs compare directly. I'd say go for it. I actually modeled the 10FE200 with the Heil
    a few years ago, what worried me was the low end of the woofer. Looks like a big rolloff under
    about 100Hz for it, but it's unclear what the measurement was. Probably an IEC baffle without
    nearfield spliced in, so bottom end may be good. Certainly is inexpensive...

    Don, Donno, or "Hey you" all work for me, But never "Mr Johnson"
  • You could go active and not worry about sensitivity.

    Ron

  • edited November 2020

    @Ron_E said:
    You could go active and not worry about sensitivity.

    Ron

  • For years I've thought about a Minidsp HD - I've got a very nice 6 channel vintage amp, so setup costs would be minimal.

    ani_101
    Don, Donno, or "Hey you" all work for me, But never "Mr Johnson"
  • You guys are killing me , be nice to just plug into a vintage amp and go . Fingers crossed on this one.

    rjj45
  • edited November 2020

    I've found the use of the miniDSP as an active filter btwn woofer and the top, and passive for the mid / tweeter, works well as I've leaned towards 3ways. It then of course can additionally be employed (or overused...) as contour / eq networks. I.e. for fans of a BBC dip, and adjusting / testing and finding the right crossover point (and slopes) between the mid and woofer… But best to focus on attenuating vs. amplifying (peaks / troughs).

    Nicholas_23
  • Well , kind of disappointed . I worked the cone manually before running DATs on the Faital 10FE200. Im not seeing the stated 55Hz as spec'd .

  • When I measured the 8FE200, the Fs was higher than spec as well for the quad I had.

  • disappointing!

    Don, Donno, or "Hey you" all work for me, But never "Mr Johnson"
  • I went ahead and sent off an email to Faital about my findings . Will see what they come back with.

  • Measure VAS and compare to spec, then model the driver in a cabinet and see how the model compared if you used measured values vs spec. Fs is higher in your measurement, but Qts is lower, you may find the cabinet models rather similarly, but VAS is required to determine that.

    T/S parameter measurements haven't been standardized at a specific voltage, but are low voltage by definition as they are intended to be parameters of the speaker "at rest". What you will find is that Fs will shift as drive voltage is increased, but so will other parameters so the cabinet model will work out the same. It could be that Faital measures their drivers at 1V or 2V instead of the small signal (350mv?) you get from DATS.

    Looking at the Faital datasheet, they spec Fs as 55Hz, but the impedance plot looks more like 58-59Hz, so they're stretching the numbers right from the get-go.

    rjj45Nicholas_23
    I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening.
  • Thanks for the tip Db , I will see if I can mess with that over the next few days. I did manage to lower the FS but good lord it took some doing. I worked the cone for close to an hour , I was worried I was going to pop the cone out of the motor , destroy the spider or pull the surround off the frame. Im not sure I can get much more out of her

  • Just measure the VAS/Mms and model the driver before you decide that there's any issue with it. It'll take less than an hour and if you do it right there should be no worry of popping the cone out of the motor or destroying the spider ;)

    I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening.
  • Response from Faital , took awhile. Deciding on the route Ill go next.

    "Dear Nick,

    After verifying further with our R&D we can only confirm that

    The standard industry tolerance for Fs value is +/-15%
    The Qms value of the loudspeaker you measured seems too high (16 instead of 9.2) , this indicates to us that the loudspeaker has not been warmed up enough.
    The suggested warm up is at 50 Hz with a voltage of 23Vrms for a length of time of no less than 30 minutes. This would be a quite standard way of proceeding.

    We hope this answers your doubts.

    Best Regards,

    The FaitalPRO Team"

  • Hmm...makes me wonder if the marketing dept nudged their own measured specs by 15%?

  • Temperature makes a big difference alright, it's easy to see a shift in Fs just by changing the ambient room temp by a couple degrees. You can see in your measurement above that you've worked Fs down some and Qms decreased from 16 to 12. What matters is how it affects the cabinet model, you'll need Vas and Mms for that. Had you measured all the parameters, you'd also see Vas increasing as you decrease Fs by breaking in the woofer due to the increased compliance.

    I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening.
  • The previous dats measurement was done by hand , and after getting the email today I ran 40 hz test tone to the same driver for about four hours . The driver has been acclimated in the house since initial purchase . Here is the burn in response of the driver after that run today . The suspension has stiffened up a bit since running the last manual/hand break in by hand .

  • @Tom_S said:
    Hmm...makes me wonder if the marketing dept nudged their own measured specs by 15%?

    I guess I get the fudge on the numbers since these are " pro drivers", and after awhile with their intended use they will loosed up some. I get it. Ill put some lower test tones to the driver tonight and see what happens tomorrow .

  • Interesting to read Faital's reply regarding their suggested break in procedure. 23Vrms seems really high. I use a variac and a step down transformer to break in all my drivers (60 Hz). I know these are pro drivers but when I'm breaking in even large woofers, 8 - 12 volts is all that is required to drive them in free air to xmax or much more. By 14 volts they are really sounding distressed. 23Vrms into a 4 ohm load is 132 Watts. They must break in their drivers in a closed box instead of free air.

  • Give em the berries I guess and see what happens ? I ran the first test driver over night at 20hz , ran the volume up until it started distorting then backed it off a few Db's. The measurements didnt change much when I ran it on DATS this morning . Ill run the second driver tonight which has no break in and see , if anything , how consistent they are.
    P.S. the driver suspension under test ,has diffidently benefited from some work in , manual and test tones. Its much more forgiving after messing with it, I can tell by moving the by hand .

  • Has anyone used a high compliance driver with a passive radiator ? Im not sure there is enough to get radiators going

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