Rec's for new HT speakers.

joeybutts

So I am getting the itch to build new HT speakers but am on the fence of where I want to head with the new ones.  I am fairly certain I want to go pro-audio.  The LFE is gonna change a little but mostly stay the same, just put the 18's in horn's and out of the undersized sealed enclosures and keep the 13's in their oversized sealed.

I have always wanted to build the DIYSG Elusive 1099's, but am looking and weighing other options, and honestly would love some recommendations.  I'm planning on pulling my screen out from the wall, going AT, and putting speakers behind them.  The E99's are about as big as I would like to go, about 3ft tall. For surrounds I was thinking volt's of some variation.

Room is approx 14x17.  I figure I can go with a cutoff of 60ish hz for the front stage.  Seating is approx 8-10 ft from the screen.

Thanks!

rjj45

I"ve been looking at high efficiency, low distortion mid-woofers. I keep coming back to Beyma and Faitalpro. Heard a number of thumbs up for those also.

tajanes

My current speakers use the Beyma 12BR-70s (2 per side in an open-back set-up) and I'm very pleased

joeybutts

rjj45 said:

I"ve been looking at high efficiency, low distortion mid-woofers. I keep coming back to Beyma and Faitalpro. Heard a number of thumbs up for those also.

I just finished building a bookshelf using the faital 6fe100 and it is quite nice for a from the papers crossover.  I’m really surprised at the extension in a slightly leaky sealed box and sounds quite nice.  I bet some fine tuning it could be quite nice for HT use.  

tajanes said:

My current speakers use the Beyma 12BR-70s (2 per side in an open-back set-up) and I'm very pleased

Thanks for the rec!  Any pics, more details?  I’m definitely favoring the more analytical/crisp sound these days, wonder if I have some hearing issues going on or if taste is changing

jhollander

Your room is not that big where I'd do a compression driver (CD) tweeter.  If you have not heard or used a CD tweeter before you might try it first.  Depending on your amp, you can pick up some hiss with no input.  With the RS28A out I'm leaning more toward the AMTs.  However, the new Peerless Corundum is sounding pretty good.  I'll have a better opinion after Fort Wayne this year.

A speaker trip might be helpful to the hear more designs in a short time.

jr@mac

Yeah, Joey, fly your ass to DDIY this June 

dcibel

jhollander said:

Your room is not that big where I'd do a compression driver (CD) tweeter.  If you have not heard or used a CD tweeter before you might try it first.

I don't know what you mean by this. A 100dB+ sensitivity CD padded down to 90dB will make the same amount of hiss as a 90dB tweeter with no padding. The only exception would be an active system where the padding is before the amp, in which case the CD amplifies the noise floor of the power amp by 10dB+ more than the 90dB tweeter will.

As far as pro drivers go, I've used Eminence Delta Pro 12A, as well as some vintage ATC 12" drivers. I'd recommend both, though the Eminence is a bit more obtainable, excellent value driver. For compression drivers, I've used both the D220ti and the B&C DE250, and the DE250 blows the D220ti out of the water. In fact I wouldn't be happy with the D220ti in the long term in my own system, but these were a friend's build. For home use, theres's some budget Tymphany compression drivers that look real nice, damped diaphragm provided a very smooth response at the expense of some sensitivity.

jhollander

Maybe, there are only few 90+ non-CD systems I can compare to. I had a domes and AMTs to somewhere near 90 dB/ watt with no hiss.  So subjectively, my CD tweeter systems near 95 dB/ watt had hiss that were annoying.  I don't believe I'm alone in this characterization.

I've got a new Peerless CD that I can test. 

dcibel

Well, your 95dB system amplified the noise floor by 5dB compared to your 90dB system. My point was that simply using a CD doen't increase the hiss, but it's the sensitivity of the system regardless of the drivers used. A CD system can be set up for 80dB sensitivity if that's what you're after.

As far as noise floor goes, in my HT jumble, I found the most improvement in noise floor was had by simply seperating my line level audio cables from the AC, ethernet and HDMI cables. I use a small rack, so I run the audio down the right side, and the rest down the left.

For high sensitivity systems, using balanced signal cables is the best solution as it not only removes "common mode" noise, or noise injected at the cable, but the signal level is higher to begin with, so SNR is better across the board.

PWRRYD

This is too weird...  l have a new pair of Eminence Delta Pro 12A that I bought for less than 1/2 price from Jeff B.  I have a pair of Seos 6x12? horns and a pair of the Tymphany compression drivers (I think are the same ones you are referring to).  I even built enclosures for them but never moved forward with that project.  Hmmm?  The woofers and horns are surface mounted and the baffle doesn't have roundovers so some diffraction issues for sure...

dcibel

That could be one heck of a nice speaker! Keep in mind that waveguides/horns direct the high frequency energy forward, so diffraction issues are less of an issue since much less high freq energy is moving at 90 off-axis.

The downside of using horns/waveguides is that the crossover generally requires a bit more work and more parts to shape the response.

PWRRYD

Yes.  My original plan was to use my MiniDSP to take care of z-offset, response shaping, etc.

jhollander

Agreed, my comment was a cautionary note if you have never heard or had a high efficiency system there can be hiss.  Nelson Pass had a good article on this, which as I recall  was related to the amplifier design more than noise through interconnects.

joeybutts

When you guys say hiss, is it audible during playback of content, or only in standby?  I've never heard of this occuring before....

Wolf

Just during idle between music. Matt dealt a lot with this problem in his system. Tried and sold both Driverack and DCX. He ended up with an Ashly dual-31 band EQ and Ashly analog xover into his Crowns. Those Radians were so smooth though.

joeybutts

I can handle in idle, not during playback.  I don't recall hearing any hiss when I built some towers for a guy using an AE TDX and a compression driver (can't recall which one at the moment).  

Is there any reason for me to choose DIYSG HTM-12 over the E99's?  I figure for the extra $90 per that it is well invested in a three way with added sensitivity.

e6zion

I am interested in more feedback on the Beyma 12BR-70s and CIARE HW321.  Both look well suited for home cinema.

joeybutts

I am completely open to designing something new if someone wants to hear new drivers/play with something new....

dcibel

joeybutts said:

When you guys say hiss, is it audible during playback of content, or only in standby?  I've never heard of this occuring before....

Depends what you're listening to. If I can hear any noise from the speaker from about 1m when idle, it's too much noise. Even if I typically listen from 2m+ away, I don't want to walk in front of the speaker and hear the equipment noise floor emanating from it. That's not Hi-Fi.

jhollander

PWRRYD said:

This is too weird...  l have a new pair of Eminence Delta Pro 12A that I bought for less than 1/2 price from Jeff B.  I have a pair of Seos 6x12? horns and a pair of the Tymphany compression drivers (I think are the same ones you are referring to).  I even built enclosures for them but never moved forward with that project.  Hmmm?  The woofers and horns are surface mounted and the baffle doesn't have roundovers so some diffraction issues for sure...

I've got the Seos horns and the Peerless DFM-2535R00-08, you?

PWRRYD

John,

Yes, I have the same DFM-2535R00-08 drivers and Seos horns.

PWRRYD

I made a template and drilled the horns for 4-bolt mounting.

jhollander

What size screws are in the Peerless CD?  They look like 1/4-20.

PWRRYD

M6-1.0