Looking for small tweeter

ani_101

I finally got a pair of BMR, the 3 inch one and looking for options for the tweeter to add some air.
Tweeter characteristics should be small diameter, good dispersion to match with the BMR, and low HD as the BMR also has amazing HD.
Usually I am looking for bigger tweeter that can cross low, but now I need not cross high, so any good candidates that fit? Would like both low cost/high cost options, as it's not required to match the cost of the BMR.

Also need to figure out the bottom end... Low distortion smaller sizes woofers that can go low, but may start with something on hand, but if you have options or opinions, let me know.

PWRRYD

I like how these two tweeters sound if you can cross at 4 kHz or higher:

Tymphany NE19VTS-04

Beston RT003C

BrannigansLaw

The little Peerless Oc20 I believe had very nice performance above 3khz, is quite small, and has a bit of waveguide loading to it. I'm having a devil of a time finding where I saw measurements of it though.

Not sure if it's still available, but the old Dayton ND20 zaph tested was a tried and true tweeter to reach for when only a supertweeter was really needed. 

As an aside, do you have distortion measurements of the BMR you mentioned? I've not seen many and the few I did looked nice for the broad FR  (minus the surround resonance or whatever the big kink is) but distortion looked pretty average. I have a pair of the TEBM65s2 here waiting for a suitable project myself.

jhollander

CSS LD22, Wavecor TW022, XT19, OT19, DX20, the over used ND25, ND20FB

ani_101

Thanks for the suggestions. Since I don't need to crossover low, and anything around 4k-7k is fine depending on where the XO falls, is there any small ones that does the super highs exceptionally well in terms of dispersion/distortion. I am also open to small shallow waveguides, if something works for that.

ani_101

PWRRYD said:

I like how these two tweeters sound if you can cross at 4 kHz or higher:

Tymphany NE19VTS-04

Beston RT003C

Have both of them on hand, but haven't used either. Any preference for either?

ani_101

jhollander said:

CSS LD22, Wavecor TW022, XT19, OT19, DX20, the over used ND25, ND20FB

I like the LD22 and also have a spare pair on hand - maybe i can get the faceplate off for a waveguide.

Just got a few TW022, will need to try these.

Both the LD22 and TW022 can also cross low (which is good, but not necessary for this use case). John anything that stand out specifically to you among these?

ani_101

BrannigansLaw said:

The little Peerless Oc20 I believe had very nice performance above 3khz, is quite small, and has a bit of waveguide loading to it. I'm having a devil of a time finding where I saw measurements of it though.

Not sure if it's still available, but the old Dayton ND20 zaph tested was a tried and true tweeter to reach for when only a supertweeter was really needed. 

As an aside, do you have distortion measurements of the BMR you mentioned? I've not seen many and the few I did looked nice for the broad FR  (minus the surround resonance or whatever the big kink is) but distortion looked pretty average. I have a pair of the TEBM65s2 here waiting for a suitable project myself.

I haven't yet measured the distortion for the BMR, but the consensus seems to be at least -50db in target frequency and combined with the wide distortion is an amazing driver for under 20$. it's not efficient and 4 ohm, so MTM won't fetch any efficiency benefits, combines with a smallish low reaching inefficient woofer would be good.

There is a Salk Sound design from Dennis Murphy with this driver which i heard at AXPONA - the Audioholics review has mesurements of the system and detailed measurement of the BMR driver by hifiCompass. I am planning to run full tests, when I get around to it... 


The BMR Monitor uses the RAAL 60-10, and achieves great dispersion - see the polar plots in the Audioholics reviews - I am trying to aim for something similar but with #NotaRAAL, not that i have anything against the RAAL other than it's not available though usual channel.

I heard John H's implementation of the 3.5" BMR - that sounded good and had real good bass for a 3.5". The 3" BMR is strictly a midrange (best crossed over 700hz).

http://salksound.com/model.php?model=BMR+Monitors

https://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/bmr-philharmonitor-1/conclusion

See the distortion measurements of the BMR:
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/tectonic/tectonic-tebm46c20n-4b

rjj45

Save the LD22 pair for a higher end build, especially if they need to cross low.
In general, a smaller diameter tweeter will have wider dispersion in the upper octave.
I'm a stickler for low distortion and smooth response - ND25 would be my choice.

jhollander

I like the smaller domes for improved off axis performance. I mentioned the LD22 and TW022 because I like how they sound.  No reason to put in a wave guide to cross high.  Also the good performance of these allow for overlap and LR2s.

Ron_E

SB Acoustics SB19ST-C000-4.

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/soft-dome-tweeters-sb-acoustics/sb-acoustics-sb19st-c000-4-3/4-dome-tweeter-4-ohms/

Ron

ani_101

All great suggestions. I have used the LD22 and it's one of my favorite tweeters for above 2k XO. I have used the SB19ST with the RS100P and it sounded great. I plain forgot about some of the smaller tweeters as i have been lately looking at larger tweeter.

Currently I am using the SB21SDC with the 12CAC and it does well in that application.

PWRRYD

I built Wolf's Stance design many moons ago and it used that Beston.  I can't speak for its distortion numbers as I didn't do the design or measure it, but it sounded really good to my ears.  Good detail and no harshness.

PWRRYD

And since you already have a pair on hand... "Alex I'll take test baffle for $500" 

JasonP

Maybe the faceplate will be too large for the application, but I loved the treble in Rory's Neutrinos. That used the Seas 22TAFG metal dome.

ani_101

The Seas 22TAFG looks interesting - hadn't looked at it or used it - though i have heard the Neutrinos, thanks Jason.

Both the Seas 22TAFG and the SB 21SDC seem to look pretty good, but are big format for a close CTC spacing. evening removing the faceplate is not going to help much as the magnets are also huge.

ani_101

of the Dayton ND Family, i have heard the ND20 in the Overnight sensations, but i don't have the speakers any more to compare. I haven't used the ND25.

The ND25FW looks interesting in a waveguide. Anybody used it or have any opinion on it? Looks like @Tom_S has left on a review on it.

The other tiny waveguided tweeter which i came across while looking for small tweeters is the Peerless BC25SC06-04. Any thought on this one?

Shawn_K

I machined off the front horn section on the ND20 tweeter in my lathe so I could mount it in a wave guide and it sounds very nice. I used it in a small two-way with a RS100P-4. 2nd order XO at 2.6 kHz.

ScottS

I like the Dayton ND16 better than the ND20 (used the 16 in the Heliums).  Only issue is that the ideal hole cutout isn't a standard size (1.27 inches if I recall correctly).  It needs a lot of encouragement to go into a 1.25" hole.

ani_101

Shawn_K said:

I machined off the front horn section on the ND20 tweeter in my lathe so I could mount it in a wave guide and it sounds very nice. I used it in a small two-way with a RS100P-4. 2nd order XO at 2.6 kHz.

This isn't the one you used in the coax?

ani_101

ScottS said:

I like the Dayton ND16 better than the ND20 (used the 16 in the Heliums).  Only issue is that the ideal hole cutout isn't a standard size (1.27 inches if I recall correctly).  It needs a lot of encouragement to go into a 1.25" hole.

There are two of them, is the faceplate the only difference - both looks to be press to fit from the front. I can get to 1.27" in the cnc.

Is the dome recessed enough inside the faceplate - cannot make out from the images.

ani_101

Hi @jhollander forgot to ask you about the PTMini. How is this for this application - it looks like its got good horizontal directivity, how bad is the vertical?

rjj45

ani_101 said:

of the Dayton ND Family, i have heard the ND20 in the Overnight sensations, but i don't have the speakers any more to compare. I haven't used the ND25.

The ND25FW looks interesting in a waveguide. Anybody used it or have any opinion on it? Looks like @Tom_S has left on a review on it.

The other tiny waveguided tweeter which i came across while looking for small tweeters is the Peerless BC25SC06-04. Any thought on this one?

I have used the BC25-SC-04 in 4 different speakers now. Reasonalby flat, kinda low distortion, very easy and forgiving to crossover.  It would make a good mate for the BMR. But it's a little big for your constraints. 2.75 in IIRC.

ani_101

rjj45 said:

I have used the BC25-SC-04 in 4 different speakers now. Reasonalby flat, kinda low distortion, very easy and forgiving to crossover.  It would make a good mate for the BMR. But it's a little big for your constraints. 2.75 in IIRC.

Sorry I got the model number wrong for the Peerless - it's the 

Peerless DX20BF00-04

ani_101

DATS reading of the BMR TEBM46T20N4B pair

A bit of a niggles in the 400hz area, 700Hz should be a safe zone, easily reacheable by most 6-7 woofers / subwoofers. Since sensitivity is low, subwoofers are better than woofers, but porting them would be an issue.


AB.pdf

jhollander

The PTmini looks cool but other than a bit of sizzle it doesn't do much.  I wouldn't recommend it, but don't let that stop you. 

+1 for the ND16 over the ND20FA, but I like the ND20FB over both.  I like the ND25FA over the ND25FW.  I like the DX20 as much as the ND25FA.  JR and Craig should have an opinion about the ND25FW IIRC

I could never get the ND28F to sound right but I know a lot of people like them.  While not low distortion or small the NeoCD1.0 always sounds good crossed high imo. That would match your inspiration designs quite well

rjj45

jhollander said:

The PTmini looks cool but other than a bit of sizzle it doesn't do much.  I wouldn't recommend it, but don't let that stop you. 

+1 for the ND16 over the ND20FA, but I like the ND20FB over both.  I like the ND25FA over the ND25FW.  I like the DX20 as much as the ND25FA.  JR and Craig should have an opinion about the ND25FW IIRC

I could never get the ND28F to sound right but I know a lot of people like them.  While not low distortion or small the NeoCD1.0 always sounds good crossed high imo. That would match your inspiration designs quite well

I will second the NeoCD1.0 - I never really liked it in the mini-statements, but I tore that one down and reused the NeoCD1.0 with a new crossover in a new design and love it. 

PWRRYD

I like the NeoCD1.0 a lot.  Listening to them right now in my Gormachos actually.  I thought their faceplate was too large a format for your app Ani.

jholtz

rjj45 said:

I will second the NeoCD1.0 - I never really liked it in the mini-statements, but I tore that one down and reused the NeoCD1.0 with a new crossover in a new design and love it.

We never used the NeoCD1.0 in any design. The Mini had the Neo CD3.0 as used in the Statements.

Jim

Wolf

PWRRYD said:

I built Wolf's Stance design many moons ago and it used that Beston.  I can't speak for its distortion numbers as I didn't do the design or measure it, but it sounded really good to my ears.  Good detail and no harshness.

That's the thing- it does sound very good with a unique character all its own. BUT- it is NOT a low HD tweeter. The xover is shaped to where the valleys help the HD signature. I'm been told it is used in the Genesis commercial line, just with a different fascia. Brushed cymbals and piano sound extra special.

Wolf

ani_101 said:

Shawn_K said:

I machined off the front horn section on the ND20 tweeter in my lathe so I could mount it in a wave guide and it sounds very nice. I used it in a small two-way with a RS100P-4. 2nd order XO at 2.6 kHz.

This isn't the one you used in the coax?

I don't recall seeing Shawn build a coax with the RS100. Are you thinking of Nick's fiberglassed 'Stink-Eyes' with the RS125 or RS150?