@jr@mac said:
I'm putting together a BoM for this - and I gotta say, the Parts Express website really, really, really sucks for this kind of thing. It is very slow, and I still hate the stupid sliders that are supposed to be some kind of filter. Just... slow, clunky, and irritating.
I took a bunch of measurements today, both speakers are fully assembled and ready to go.
I am working on a write-up for shitzengiggles, but after reading what I wrote last night I think my state of mind is a little on the cynical side right now so I may not finish it, or at least not immediately.
Anyways, some squigglies. This is not an optimized design, but is probably at least as nice as any big box stuff.
I spent an hour today building a lazy susan for taking polars, it is not a bad jig - little rough around the edges, but I think it is a viable jig for measuring. I may share some details on it, but it isnt anything groundbreaking by any stretch.
Anyways, horizontals at 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, and 45:
Any a few verticals in the upwards axis:
I did not do the verticals correctly, I forgot to set my distance each time. Normally on bookshelf speakers, I lay it on its side and rotate it that way. These I just got lazy, I guess.
Anyways, given that disclaimer, here is all of those squigglies averaged out:
Some issues around 3K, I could have suppressed it in on-axis to help balance it out a bit but when I did that it kind of fell on its face. I just couldn't find the right balance, so I decided to live with the slight glare it gives. The midrange just doesn't play well, I really cannot recommend this driver unless you have a really small form factor tweeter that can also play really low. I think the irregular response on the top end plus the huge diameter just wasn't going to work. I really tried to get the mid to cross higher or the tweeter to cross lower, but it just didn't seem to be worth the effort.
The averaged response (and take that with the grain of salt) still shows the emphasis at 3K.
Here is a distortion plot at a sane listening level of 90db/1M:
The spike at 350 is somewhat reduced over the 95-96db sweep I did earlier.
Subjectively, these are voiced a little on the polite side with the exception of the lower treble glare. The bass is pretty legitimate - the woofer is the best driver in this design. I spent a while listening in my garage, and determined they are good enough - and probably better than many people have heard in their lives.
All in all - a fun, quick design.
Things I would do differently:
Throw the Dayton tweeter in the garbage. Use that little Vifa/Tymphany/Peerless/Whafuckever waveguide thing. The smaller outside diameter would be beneficial with the HiVi. It will play just as low.
Throw the HiVi in the trash and use the RS52F - even with the known issues it is probably easier to use, and definitely a better motor.
Your analysis of what most people will ever hear is spot on. The squiggles show a fine sounding speaker and we as DIYers are going to be the worst critic for something like this. Nice job and even better gift👍🏻
Too bad about the HiVi dome mid. I had some mild expectations for it. I'm sure the Dayton dome mid is better. I know I love my CAM558 mids (round frame Morel MDM55). Guess my pair of HiVi's will be showing up on the swap meet table in Indy. My stupid impulse buying...
I recently finished a build with the HiVi dome and liked it (Charlie's MCM project). I crossed it active at 1K and passive at 6K and was favorably impressed by how the system turned out. My friend Charlie loves them. I received an e-mail yesterday with this conclusion.
"I was listening to Chris Rea's "Road to Hell pt II" and was amazed at how sharp the drum hits were. I don't think I have ever heard them better. And when listening to Chris Isaac, I noticed that his voice was perfect, and I could hear the fingers on the guitar strings like I was15 feet away from a live performance. And the bass was solid and didn't drop in sound level all the way down to low E.
GREAT!"
I'd take those mids off your hands except for the fact that I ordered a pair for myself as soon I shipped Charlie his speakers.
@PWRRYD said:
Too bad about the HiVi dome mid. I had some mild expectations for it. I'm sure the Dayton dome mid is better. I know I love my CAM558 mids (round frame Morel MDM55). Guess my pair of HiVi's will be showing up on the swap meet table in Indy. My stupid impulse buying...
I finished a 3 way with CAM558 mids, and although the heavens didn't part, they were very detailed and held up fairly well when I hit them with some volume. I'd def use them again..
But Chahly - Stahkist don't want speakers that look good, Stahkist wants speakers that sound good!
Dome mids are kind of weird to work with. On the down side they need a woofer that can cleanly cross over up higher. On the up side they allow the use of a smaller ribbon or planar tweeter. My NeoCD1.0 ribbons work great with the CAM558's. No need for a RAAAAAAAL. I would speculate that the CAM558 and say a RT1.3WE would be a great sounding match. Stick a great 8" woofer under them and bam!
I used an Airborne 5002 AMT (thank you Oscar) with the CAM558s, crossed around 4.0 K. Worked out very well! One of these days I really must finish the writeup. (LOL). Used an RS270 on the bottom.
But Chahly - Stahkist don't want speakers that look good, Stahkist wants speakers that sound good!
@rjj45 said:
I used an Airborne 5002 AMT (thank you Oscar) with the CAM558s, crossed around 4.0 K. Worked out very well! One of these days I really must finish the writeup. (LOL). Used an RS270 on the bottom.
@Wolf said:
Hey, Don-
Put some 'gooder' caps on that there AMT and be amazed! They are very revealing.
I would def do that, but that pair is sold and gone now. I still have another pair of 5002s on
the shelf though, and have standardized (so far) on Clarity CSA for tweeters. Ok, Mr Cap Guru,
what's the next step up after CSAs?
But Chahly - Stahkist don't want speakers that look good, Stahkist wants speakers that sound good!
Honestly, the 5002 really like the good stuff. Jantzen Z-Superior would be a good bar to hit. I wish the Zen-Caps were still available from NorthCreek, as they hit the bar for less coinage.
Comments
Totally agree. It's a mess.
I took a bunch of measurements today, both speakers are fully assembled and ready to go.
I am working on a write-up for shitzengiggles, but after reading what I wrote last night I think my state of mind is a little on the cynical side right now so I may not finish it, or at least not immediately.
Anyways, some squigglies. This is not an optimized design, but is probably at least as nice as any big box stuff.
I spent an hour today building a lazy susan for taking polars, it is not a bad jig - little rough around the edges, but I think it is a viable jig for measuring. I may share some details on it, but it isnt anything groundbreaking by any stretch.
Anyways, horizontals at 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, and 45:
Any a few verticals in the upwards axis:
I did not do the verticals correctly, I forgot to set my distance each time. Normally on bookshelf speakers, I lay it on its side and rotate it that way. These I just got lazy, I guess.
Anyways, given that disclaimer, here is all of those squigglies averaged out:
Some issues around 3K, I could have suppressed it in on-axis to help balance it out a bit but when I did that it kind of fell on its face. I just couldn't find the right balance, so I decided to live with the slight glare it gives. The midrange just doesn't play well, I really cannot recommend this driver unless you have a really small form factor tweeter that can also play really low. I think the irregular response on the top end plus the huge diameter just wasn't going to work. I really tried to get the mid to cross higher or the tweeter to cross lower, but it just didn't seem to be worth the effort.
The averaged response (and take that with the grain of salt) still shows the emphasis at 3K.
Here is a distortion plot at a sane listening level of 90db/1M:
The spike at 350 is somewhat reduced over the 95-96db sweep I did earlier.
Subjectively, these are voiced a little on the polite side with the exception of the lower treble glare. The bass is pretty legitimate - the woofer is the best driver in this design. I spent a while listening in my garage, and determined they are good enough - and probably better than many people have heard in their lives.
All in all - a fun, quick design.
Things I would do differently:
On to the next one!
Your analysis of what most people will ever hear is spot on. The squiggles show a fine sounding speaker and we as DIYers are going to be the worst critic for something like this. Nice job and even better gift👍🏻
..... except you didn't tile the bottom for better octotaganistic wavebody suppression.
Too bad about the HiVi dome mid. I had some mild expectations for it. I'm sure the Dayton dome mid is better. I know I love my CAM558 mids (round frame Morel MDM55). Guess my pair of HiVi's will be showing up on the swap meet table in Indy. My stupid impulse buying...
Yeah, I was disappointed to be honest. At this point in my design career, though - I know when a turd can be polished. This is satin turd at best.
I recently finished a build with the HiVi dome and liked it (Charlie's MCM project). I crossed it active at 1K and passive at 6K and was favorably impressed by how the system turned out. My friend Charlie loves them. I received an e-mail yesterday with this conclusion.
"I was listening to Chris Rea's "Road to Hell pt II" and was amazed at how sharp the drum hits were. I don't think I have ever heard them better. And when listening to Chris Isaac, I noticed that his voice was perfect, and I could hear the fingers on the guitar strings like I was15 feet away from a live performance. And the bass was solid and didn't drop in sound level all the way down to low E.
GREAT!"
I'd take those mids off your hands except for the fact that I ordered a pair for myself as soon I shipped Charlie his speakers.
Ron
I finished a 3 way with CAM558 mids, and although the heavens didn't part, they were very detailed and held up fairly well when I hit them with some volume. I'd def use them again..
Dome mids are kind of weird to work with. On the down side they need a woofer that can cleanly cross over up higher. On the up side they allow the use of a smaller ribbon or planar tweeter. My NeoCD1.0 ribbons work great with the CAM558's. No need for a RAAAAAAAL. I would speculate that the CAM558 and say a RT1.3WE would be a great sounding match. Stick a great 8" woofer under them and bam!
I used an Airborne 5002 AMT (thank you Oscar) with the CAM558s, crossed around 4.0 K. Worked out very well! One of these days I really must finish the writeup. (LOL). Used an RS270 on the bottom.
Wow! Looks very nice!
Hey, Don-
Put some 'gooder' caps on that there AMT and be amazed! They are very revealing.
InDIYana Event Website
Wolfy's Photobucket
I would def do that, but that pair is sold and gone now. I still have another pair of 5002s on
the shelf though, and have standardized (so far) on Clarity CSA for tweeters. Ok, Mr Cap Guru,
what's the next step up after CSAs?
Honestly, the 5002 really like the good stuff. Jantzen Z-Superior would be a good bar to hit. I wish the Zen-Caps were still available from NorthCreek, as they hit the bar for less coinage.
Or- order up some good Russian 'styrenes...
K71-4 or MPGO types are polystyrene, just use a heatsink clip on the lead when you solder them as the film will melt easier on this type of capacitor.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-K71-4V-4-7-UF-160V-2-Capacitors-polystyrene-metallized-compacted-USSR-/163789341670?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5336770878&toolid=10001&customid=69111X1517312Xb5e2ade7ee4496ab30736b541f1278b7
Another option:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-4uF-160V-5-Polystyrene-Audio-Capacitors-MPGO-USSR-NOS/202534438147?hash=item2f27fe4503:g:4VkAAOSwoQhcD8Ab
I have both kinds to try out...
(Not my photo)
InDIYana Event Website
Wolfy's Photobucket
My litmus test passed, so maybe I'm just getting deaf. Mrs. JR really enjoyed them.
8kW?? Not likely, must be a joke...
InDIYana Event Website
Wolfy's Photobucket
Really?
???
InDIYana Event Website
Wolfy's Photobucket
different speakers when I look at the pic
8096 watts of pure power.
These are coming to Iowa, they have been in the garage - there may be a spider or two inside of them. Hope they like loud music.