Return of the cone tweeter...

Wolf

Saw this on DIYaudio:
https://www.wavecor.com/html/tw045wa01.html

I like the concept, and it reminds me of the old Ford Premium Sound cone tweeters from the '90s.

charlielaub

Hmmm, not sure how much better this particular example will be compared to a good large dome tweeter, e.g. Wavecor TW030WAxx. For the coax tweeter Fs is around 800Hz and distortion is typically increasing already starting an octave above that. Also despite the small dome the directivity control above 5kHz is poor.

Overall I think this is an interesting concept, a tweeter-tweeter coax, but could use some refinement in the design. Keep in mind that I no zilch about transducer design, only seeing things from a usability standpoint.

dcibel

It's not a coax - it's a cone tweeter.

Nice high sensitivity though it is 4 ohm. Directivity is what you would expect for a cone tweeter, for comparison, the TW030WA11 with small wqaveguide is below.

jr@mac

I like it. Would make for a high-ish end old school monkey coffin tweeter.

ugly_woofer

I can see it as a replacement tweeter in an old monkey coffin.

charlielaub

@dcibel said:
It's not a coax - it's a cone tweeter.

Nice high sensitivity though it is 4 ohm. Directivity is what you would expect for a cone tweeter, for comparison, the TW030WA11 with small wqaveguide is below.

Initially, from the description I got the idea that these are two separate parts, so coax. For example:

Dual-Piston design combining a 22 mm textile dome with a 45 mm ceramic cone
Dual-neodymium magnet structure

Using the term "dual" has me thinking "two".

But I see the datasheet also says:

22 mm voice coil design with high power handling, and low resonance frequency

...as in a single voice coil. So it looks like both are driven by a single VC and the dome sits on the VC much like a standard tweeter while the cone part sticks out farther... I guess.

PWRRYD

Is that some sort of foam or felt over the surround to lessen diffraction?

dcibel

@charlielaub said:

Initially, from the description I got the idea that these are two separate parts, so coax. For example:

Dual-Piston design combining a 22 mm textile dome with a 45 mm ceramic cone

Fancy marketing speak for "a cone with a dustcap".

dynamo

I absolutely love it. Now if someone could make a proper true acoustic suspension 8” woofer to go with it!

charlielaub

You want old school acoustic suspension woofers, then look here:
https://www.humanspeakers.com/
Under DIY he offers several drivers.

Wolf

I hope to use one eventually, as I really like the idea. Just a mechanical xover from ceramic to silk.

Gowa

Am I missing something? What's the point of this tweeter?

dcibel

The main point would be marketing for a speaker with "vintage" heritage and sound character. Filling a market gap of cone tweeters that exist and aren't complete junk.

dcibel

Wow, 3rd harmonic is off the radar!

https://audioxpress.com/article/test-bench-wavecor-s-tw045wa01-coaxial-cloth-dome-ceramic-cone-tweeter

Though, overall THD is lower on TW030WA11/12, as well as some other better characteristics:
https://audioxpress.com/article/Test-Bench-Wavecor-TW030WA12-30-mm-Cloth-Waveguide-Loaded-Tweeter

Wolf

I'm curious about the cost....

dcibel

I'd guess ~$130-$150. Looks too "exotic" to be priced same as the TW030WA11/12.

jr@mac

That is spectacular.

Wolf

Yep, I'm itching to use it. I have the Kartesian SUB120 and would pair them and call them the Anomalies. 2 very unique drivers on same performance tier, both in a small package, and low HD. According to the mfg spec and Vance's measurements, the TW045 could possibly be used lower than 2.5k and be presentable at average outputs most of us use. The HD is only 1.8% at 2.1k, but that is at very high output. The response looks good down to about Fs. The Fs is stated incorrectly in Vance's writeup as 670, when clearly it is 850 in the plot and close to avg spec.

Colonel7

@dcibel said:
Wow, 3rd harmonic is off the radar!

https://audioxpress.com/article/test-bench-wavecor-s-tw045wa01-coaxial-cloth-dome-ceramic-cone-tweeter

Though, overall THD is lower on TW030WA11/12, as well as some other better characteristics:
https://audioxpress.com/article/Test-Bench-Wavecor-TW030WA12-30-mm-Cloth-Waveguide-Loaded-Tweeter

Looks outstanding. Really wish he’d measure distortion down to 1k as a standard instead of 2k

Ed_Perkins

I don’t understand Vance’s distortion results for the TW045WA01. He states “For the last SoundCheck test procedure, I set the 1m SPL to 94dB (2.96V) using a noise stimulus, and measured the second and third harmonic distortion at 10cm”. Using the dB/distance relationship he should be measuring 114 dB at 10 cm, but his graph shows 130 dB. Did he have to increase the drive level to get the 3rd order distortion out of the noise floor range? If so, that’s equivalent to 110 dB @ 1 meter!

PS – The TW030WA12 was measured at the expected 114 dB level @ 10 cm.

dcibel

Looks like he compensated in the wrong direction, adding 20dB rather than subtracting.

Ed_Perkins

Wavecor's distortion plot is probably more indicative at standard drive levels:

Steve_Lee

That is just beautiful.

charlielaub

I don't get what is attractive about this driver. The VoiceCoil distortion plot does not even extend below 2kHz and the 2nd order level has already shot up to almost 2% there. This is at 94dB@1m SPL level. That's getting up there, but not over the top.

If the cone part could be used lower, for example crossed over at 750Hz LR2, and could do so at relatively low distortion and 94dB@1m I would be VERY interested. As it stands the driver is not much better than a well designed dome tweeter if it has to be crossed over above 2kHz...

The concept is definitely interesting, however, this doesn't make the best use of the concentric driver tweeter potential IMHO.

ugly_woofer

Maybe it's just me, but by looking at Wavecor's chart, I would try and cross it about 1k and give it a listen. With predominantly 2nd order distortion, it may work quite well.

Wolf

I'm not certain you can't use this successfully to 1kHz, according to the Wavecor spec sheet. I would not call 2% awful, as there are worse HD drivers out there. It is just not state of the art in that small range.

Steve_Lee

I think it would make for a really nice top end in a 3-way due to its low distortion (Look at that H3) and unique looks. YMMV.

dcibel

@charlielaub said:
I don't get what is attractive about this driver.

I get it, other than the higher sensitivity I would say the TW030WA11/12 looks like a better tweeter in every way, TW045 may play a bit lower but I don’t really have a good use case for a 1kHz tweeter crossover. But, some people just want something that’s a bit different and unique, so the modern old-school cone tweeter is a bit more of a conversation piece.

Steve_Lee

dcibel

Listed at Solen for CAD$342

Wolf

Wow..... that's $257 USAD.