Groovin! Implementing the HP on the toms will tighten them up nicely. Besides the snare sounding "electronic" pretty good mix. Maybe the kick is a little loud for that song? I'm listening on my car system which is bass heavy when not driving.
Serengeti Walk Drum Remix 6-5-2024 Using SD-3 sounds mostly (blended):
OK, I put a lot of time into the remix of this drum take posted earlier (I didn't replay/record it - Just remixed it) tonight as I don't feel much like playing at this time.
Learning as I go . . .
I separated the hi-hats and snare in the mix (L/R channels) so you could hear the left and right hand playing "open-style" in a more defined way and cleaned up the track using mostly "Superior Drummer-3" sounds blended with the originally played "Studio Drummer" kit sounds that I prefer for jamming/playing live.
Tonight's effort (and it was considerable) I won't bore you with how much work this was but I gave "Kiko Loureio's - Reflective" my attention and spent a lot of time learning more about Superior Drummer-3 software.
o Took the muddiness out of the toms, kick and cymbals
o High Hat was too hot in places
o Snare lacked "smack"
o Ride cymbals were too soft/low in the mix
o Adjusted decay time of the toms
o Improved Blending of the two kit sounds (SuperiorDrummer3 & Studio Drummer) to be more complimentary
o Increased over-all definition of kit to match ambience of source track
Let me know if you do not hear an improvement over the last mix please, otherwise I will assume that I am moving in a positive direction.
I need a better mixing reference. Sounds fantastic on my monitors, not so good on Sony MDR-7506 headphones, doesn't translate to other peoples' playback devices well at all. (All feedback from email recipients - none from this site on latest effort).
I think I burned my ears out last night with too much mixing. Got to where the HF end was missing and it all sounded dull.
The Sony MDR-7506's sound very much like my monitors today after a good night's sleep.
I redid the EQ on my office monitors/speakers today and the mix sounds fine there too.
So, I did order the SlateAudio|VSX system out of curiosity as it has a 30 day refund policy and will see if it is actually useful or just a gimmick - I have this nagging feeling that my mix sounds fine, just unrefined due to inexperience and that I can just EQ a good set of headphones if they have the FR range (MDR-7506's lack upper FR and drop precipitously post 10KHz and the old worn-out Sony MDR-V6's are better there but more bass heavy).
Additionally, I cannot control the FR of the recipients' playback systems - this is the wall that I keep finding myself beating my head against and wonder why I keep doing it every full moon . . . Yet the VSX system says it can handle that - we'll soon see.
One last thought - I am downloading and installing the Room Mic add-on to Superior Drummer-3 tonight (46 GB - 5 hour download for me) and hope it will help with the presence and depth of the drums in the near future.
This is just a challenge for me to figure-out and achieve a solution - for my own entertainment - too hot outside to do much else for the next couple of months.
Another long mixing/learning session tonight. Hope you don't mind . . . but . . .
After talking to my fellow music addict - Danno, about all this mixing stuff (he is quite studious/capable in this endeavor) it seems part of the secret to better/cleaner mixes is to move instruments/mic's around in the mix (Left / Right channel balances) in order to fill the space and avoid frequency cancellations/destructive resonances so I moved the snare's bottom mic, top mic and compressed mic channel mixes around and a bunch of other stuff (I won't bore you with the details) and came up with this mix which is really sounding more like a commercial production here in my little basement studio - hope it sounds good on your playback system -->
What drum set? Sounds like a Yamaha to me. What mics are you using? I am a left handed drummer, lol! And I pan my hi hat to the left. Audience perspective.
Last one sounds good but there is too much bottom snare mic and the snare needs a small amount of reverb.
I find it to be decent for just playing along with sound tracks/practicing but for mixing and making final renderings that blending the ^ recorded MIDI data with Superior Drummer3 (SD3) --> https://www.toontrack.com/product/superior-drummer-3/ to be a better production in output (cleaner).
This is the sampled kit layout I am using for mix-down in SD3 which is a combo of Gretch, Ayotte and GMS drum shells with a bunch cymbals from various manufacturers:
I am not actually mic'ing acoustics any longer as that effort became far too much maintenance/time consuming for me dealing with everything that goes along with an acoustic studio so I sold most of it off including the drums, cymbals gates, compressors, cables mics, mixer, effects, extra heads, A/D converters, etc.
I still have an old/pristine AKG D12E Bass Drum mic here if anyone is interested . . .
Concerning your snare mix feedback - thanks - I'll give those inputs a tweak and see how it sounds - you are probably right . . . My kit balance (L/R) is mirrored so I can play the drums without going WTF every 2 seconds while I play them . . .
I still use 100% my own mic'ed drums for tracks. I have it dialed in and love the sound. I need to change my snare out though. It is just to deep for recording. It's a marching band snare! I play all Yamaha kits. I had a Gretsch that sounded really good, but I sold it.
@Analogkid455 said:
You can always flip your headphones around, lol!
I still use 100% my own mic'ed drums for tracks. I have it dialed in and love the sound. I need to change my snare out though. It is just to deep for recording. It's a marching band snare! I play all Yamaha kits. I had a Gretsch that sounded really good, but I sold it.
Flip headphones around - Ha! that made me LOL from the sheer simplicity!
In reality, I prefer to play with the monitors for that open room sound - you know, the crash, boom and resonances that sound like a real kit in a room - the headphones are mostly for mixing/critical work/listening.
You have one hell of a kit there, dude! Beauty!.
What is that, like 7 toms, double bass pedal, high-hats on the wrong side and maybe 7 cymbals? Very sweet - you must have long reach.
The shells look a lot like the TAMA Rockstar kit I had a very long time ago in candy apple red.
Yeah, there is nothing better than live drums in a mix - wish I still had the energy to keep it all up though.
Post some of your kit sound when you get a chance - maybe it will inspire me.
Glad you like it. Both of these were recorded live with everyone mic'ed up at the same time in the same room. No studio trickery. No samples, no punch ins, no drum replacement, no anything. Straight off the mics.
The best way to get a good drum sound is first, get them tuned perfect. makes a huge difference. Second, get the mics placed perfectly. This can take a long time, but once you get it right, it is going to be gold no matter what you do later on. you want the recording to sound the way you want it to sound in the end. then you can tweak from there in the mix.
If you start with shit drums, shit tuning and shit mic placement or even shit mics, you will never get a good sound.
Good advice, and you are obviously doing everything right.
I can take away from this much that will translate to my kit sound/mix minus the physical mic placements.
Comments
Not at all -right hand dominant and very clumbsy with left . . .
I edited my post while you replied, sorry.
InDIYana Event Website
No problem and your edited post is correct and how I have always played in the past, Ben.
Okay, just trying to understand. You are attempting to play 'open' as a different technique?
InDIYana Event Website
Works for some people. Dave Grohl tends to play open.
InDIYana Event Website
Yes, Correct.
It is very difficult for me. Gotta get in a groove to pull it off and I was very surprised that I managed to get through this tune doing it.
Groovin! Implementing the HP on the toms will tighten them up nicely. Besides the snare sounding "electronic" pretty good mix. Maybe the kick is a little loud for that song? I'm listening on my car system which is bass heavy when not driving.
EQ is your friend, Eric! (Your system is too hot/bass heavy). Roll it off!
Thanks manno!
Nah, it's done that way on purpose. Road noise compensation.
Ahhhh!
Serengeti Walk Drum Remix 6-5-2024 Using SD-3 sounds mostly (blended):
OK, I put a lot of time into the remix of this drum take posted earlier (I didn't replay/record it - Just remixed it) tonight as I don't feel much like playing at this time.
Learning as I go . . .
I separated the hi-hats and snare in the mix (L/R channels) so you could hear the left and right hand playing "open-style" in a more defined way and cleaned up the track using mostly "Superior Drummer-3" sounds blended with the originally played "Studio Drummer" kit sounds that I prefer for jamming/playing live.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/i81wx6fe16ofn25gt5vdz/Sarengeti-Walk-SJL-Drums-6-5-24_02.mp3?rlkey=8qwpjgxwtntcu2studnvo3d7e&dl=0
Tonight's effort (and it was considerable) I won't bore you with how much work this was but I gave "Kiko Loureio's - Reflective" my attention and spent a lot of time learning more about Superior Drummer-3 software.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ormtn12p5ewdfk9kvju9g/Kiko-Loureiro_Reflective-SJL-Drums-6-22-2024.mp3?rlkey=qcl59qyt45ok4xfdc8dueln14&dl=0
Turn it up to 50% or more on your device for best effect - still needs post production/mixing work . . .
Tonight's work on a remix of "Kiko Loureio's - Reflective".
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gant4lpttyentb268o0pc/Kiko-Loureiro_Reflective-SJL-Drums-6-23-2024-ReMix.mp3?rlkey=7zs9i7xwarvzays272i5zizn5&dl=0
Of note:
o Took the muddiness out of the toms, kick and cymbals
o High Hat was too hot in places
o Snare lacked "smack"
o Ride cymbals were too soft/low in the mix
o Adjusted decay time of the toms
o Improved Blending of the two kit sounds (SuperiorDrummer3 & Studio Drummer) to be more complimentary
o Increased over-all definition of kit to match ambience of source track
Let me know if you do not hear an improvement over the last mix please, otherwise I will assume that I am moving in a positive direction.
Keep on jamming . . .
I need a better mixing reference. Sounds fantastic on my monitors, not so good on Sony MDR-7506 headphones, doesn't translate to other peoples' playback devices well at all. (All feedback from email recipients - none from this site on latest effort).
Looking into this system - uses Beryllium drivers . . . https://stevenslateaudio.com/vsx
I think I burned my ears out last night with too much mixing. Got to where the HF end was missing and it all sounded dull.
The Sony MDR-7506's sound very much like my monitors today after a good night's sleep.
I redid the EQ on my office monitors/speakers today and the mix sounds fine there too.
So, I did order the SlateAudio|VSX system out of curiosity as it has a 30 day refund policy and will see if it is actually useful or just a gimmick - I have this nagging feeling that my mix sounds fine, just unrefined due to inexperience and that I can just EQ a good set of headphones if they have the FR range (MDR-7506's lack upper FR and drop precipitously post 10KHz and the old worn-out Sony MDR-V6's are better there but more bass heavy).
Additionally, I cannot control the FR of the recipients' playback systems - this is the wall that I keep finding myself beating my head against and wonder why I keep doing it every full moon . . . Yet the VSX system says it can handle that - we'll soon see.
One last thought - I am downloading and installing the Room Mic add-on to Superior Drummer-3 tonight (46 GB - 5 hour download for me) and hope it will help with the presence and depth of the drums in the near future.
This is just a challenge for me to figure-out and achieve a solution - for my own entertainment - too hot outside to do much else for the next couple of months.
I haven't had a chance to listen yet, but props for going the distance with all this🤘🏼
Another long mixing/learning session tonight. Hope you don't mind . . . but . . .
After talking to my fellow music addict - Danno, about all this mixing stuff (he is quite studious/capable in this endeavor) it seems part of the secret to better/cleaner mixes is to move instruments/mic's around in the mix (Left / Right channel balances) in order to fill the space and avoid frequency cancellations/destructive resonances so I moved the snare's bottom mic, top mic and compressed mic channel mixes around and a bunch of other stuff (I won't bore you with the details) and came up with this mix which is really sounding more like a commercial production here in my little basement studio - hope it sounds good on your playback system -->
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/t0m4gajjwn6b5r8snf2lr/Kiko-Loureiro_Reflective-SJL-Drums-6-27-2024-ReMix.mp3?rlkey=0ha7vmw6n852v0a5z2qz5x6g6&dl=0
What drum set? Sounds like a Yamaha to me. What mics are you using? I am a left handed drummer, lol! And I pan my hi hat to the left. Audience perspective.
Last one sounds good but there is too much bottom snare mic and the snare needs a small amount of reverb.
Hi AK455 - thanks for your feedback and inquiries - I was hoping a drummer would check-in.
Right now, I play with MIDI drums/triggers/brain (Yamaha DTXExpress4 with all upgraded TCS pads and expanded cymbals) and lay down tracks/practice using this Studio Drummer (SD) VST/Virtual Instrument --> https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/drums/studio-drummer/
I find it to be decent for just playing along with sound tracks/practicing but for mixing and making final renderings that blending the ^ recorded MIDI data with Superior Drummer3 (SD3) --> https://www.toontrack.com/product/superior-drummer-3/ to be a better production in output (cleaner).
This is the sampled kit layout I am using for mix-down in SD3 which is a combo of Gretch, Ayotte and GMS drum shells with a bunch cymbals from various manufacturers:
I am not actually mic'ing acoustics any longer as that effort became far too much maintenance/time consuming for me dealing with everything that goes along with an acoustic studio so I sold most of it off including the drums, cymbals gates, compressors, cables mics, mixer, effects, extra heads, A/D converters, etc.
I still have an old/pristine AKG D12E Bass Drum mic here if anyone is interested . . .
https://reverb.com/p/akg-d12-e-cardioid-dynamic-microphone
Concerning your snare mix feedback - thanks - I'll give those inputs a tweak and see how it sounds - you are probably right . . . My kit balance (L/R) is mirrored so I can play the drums without going WTF every 2 seconds while I play them . . .
Best!
You can always flip your headphones around, lol!
I still use 100% my own mic'ed drums for tracks. I have it dialed in and love the sound. I need to change my snare out though. It is just to deep for recording. It's a marching band snare! I play all Yamaha kits. I had a Gretsch that sounded really good, but I sold it.
Flip headphones around - Ha! that made me LOL from the sheer simplicity!
In reality, I prefer to play with the monitors for that open room sound - you know, the crash, boom and resonances that sound like a real kit in a room - the headphones are mostly for mixing/critical work/listening.
You have one hell of a kit there, dude! Beauty!.
What is that, like 7 toms, double bass pedal, high-hats on the wrong side and maybe 7 cymbals? Very sweet - you must have long reach.
The shells look a lot like the TAMA Rockstar kit I had a very long time ago in candy apple red.
Yeah, there is nothing better than live drums in a mix - wish I still had the energy to keep it all up though.
Post some of your kit sound when you get a chance - maybe it will inspire me.
AK455 - I just applied your suggested snare settings to the mix and it did bring some life to it - more smack, definition.
Thanks!
Link to new mix --> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3avsi8iafc4bjutav6nde/Kiko-Loureiro_Reflective-SJL-Drums-6-29-2024-ReMix.mp3?rlkey=03a6vd12pttgcxzchaard2yy1&dl=0
Yes, you are right on all accounts on my drum set!
Sounds great! I think the snare sits a lot better in the mix now! Glad you like it!
I will put some links up tomorrow of some of my drum sounds. I have so many recording will have to fish through them.
Bring it, AK455!
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/dkx8xb8ysi161g1wv11fq/Morbidcy-PJT92-9-10-17-mix-24-mastered1.wav?rlkey=r0mczv9b14te4mb3q55lzeq06&st=nvp8e1s4&dl=0
This is a song we wrote in the 80's. It's Death Metal just to warn you.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zxnvupbo9xtro6dscpl3u/TTT-PJT44-10-14-22-MIX1.wav?rlkey=xcmz1moa5nfydaj4roy5exlz8&st=99a7jc15&dl=0
This is just me and my brother messing around while we were drunk. The snare sound I don't like too much but the rest sound pretty good.
Your kit sounds great, dude!!
Glad you like it. Both of these were recorded live with everyone mic'ed up at the same time in the same room. No studio trickery. No samples, no punch ins, no drum replacement, no anything. Straight off the mics.
The best way to get a good drum sound is first, get them tuned perfect. makes a huge difference. Second, get the mics placed perfectly. This can take a long time, but once you get it right, it is going to be gold no matter what you do later on. you want the recording to sound the way you want it to sound in the end. then you can tweak from there in the mix.
If you start with shit drums, shit tuning and shit mic placement or even shit mics, you will never get a good sound.
Good advice, and you are obviously doing everything right.
I can take away from this much that will translate to my kit sound/mix minus the physical mic placements.