I haven't had the chance to work with nice wood species until more recently. So it still surprizes me. Amazing what just dewaxed shellac will do. I still don't know why shellac isn't more of a go-to finish for DIY speakers. So many positives, and the negatives are pretty much nullified by how convenient touchups are compared to any other finish.
Aaand I think thats all the coats I need. done in under 3hrs. including a very light sand after the first couple coats to knock down the hairs. Seriously guys, save the arm-r-seal for rough use items like tables and countertops. It isn't necessary for speakers when you can have this in a few hours...
Applied and dried indoors since it doesn't stink so bad like poly. My wife was in the next room over with an open doorway between and she never said a word about the smell. If I did that with poly she would have lit my ass up! I'll let it outgass most of the remaining alcohol overnight then I'll try rubbing with a brown paper bag to see if that knocks down the gloss to more of a satin.
Just test lead connection inside. Easy enough to drop a cap and coil at the bottom. Doing some break in by just listening to em but couldn't do so very loud last night (still woke the wife up, oops).
Looks great, that veneer and finish is beautiful. In this case, I certainly prefer the diamond mounting of the drivers. I think it fills the vertical space better and is visually appealing.
I tried rubbing with brown paper bag, but wasn't getting much effect. I tried 0000 steel wool. That made them too dull.
I rubbed on some Howard Feed-N-Wax. Perfect!
I moved the other speakers out and put these on stands.
Witnessing the drivers get better as they play is always interesting. I still need to test each driver to see which pair matches best and orient those as the mains. I am a bit apprehensive to take a complete measurement as that might drive me to start making changes. They are pretty satisfying as-is.
Sofar, I would agree with measurements others took of the pc105. On axis, the very top octave seems boosted, which gives the usual effect of seeming more detailed and dynamic for plucked strings and gravely voices, etc. If that becomes too much just toe them out a little.
They got bass! I can definately tell when they are "on the port" as I can only have them a foot away from the wall before they are in the way of walking space in my livingroom. It is definately finding my room modes. Makes them a bit boomy in the bottom octave. Normally a pet peeve of mine but, in many tracks it is either well masked or accentuates nicely so I'll try to get used to it. I honestly figured it would be worse due to full BSC of the second driver. Maybe the 1ohm DCR of the air core is dropping the output of the second driver enough above resonance that I'm not noticing an excess. I wonder if a ~30ohm resistor across the second driver might drop the resonance peak a tad for a little less boomines. But I need to bite the bullet and run leads out the ports if I'm going to start experimenting (doh, there I go).
I was poking around the storage bins and realized I have some Jantzen crosscaps in correct value I forgot about. I've never realy had the chance to experience cap differences, but I guess I might as well use those vs the PE 5%ers.
@DrewsBrews said:
I was poking around the storage bins and realized I have some Jantzen crosscaps in correct value I forgot about. I've never realy had the chance to experience cap differences, but I guess I might as well use those vs the PE 5%ers.
I have done comparisions between the Dayton caps and Superior Z caps. Obvious difference. The standard Z cap I think sounds a bit cleaner than the Dayton. The Crosscap to me doesn't sound any better. I might like the Dayton better. It's close. Dayton has two different caps. The ones with yellow ends and white ends. I haven't done a serious listening test between the two. My comparisons have been with the yellow ones.
I like the Standard Z caps, especially when space is a concern. A bit of sparkle. Crosscaps don't do anything wrong, but suffice. I like the Silvers over the 'Sup. I generally like the Audyn Q4, this last time being the only time they didn't work well. Dayton 1% or 5% are same build, just different colors. Prefer Audyn and Jantzen to them, but will use them in a cheap build.
@Wolf said:
I like the Standard Z caps, especially when space is a concern. A bit of sparkle. Crosscaps don't do anything wrong, but suffice. I like the Silvers over the 'Sup. I generally like the Audyn Q4, this last time being the only time they didn't work well. Dayton 1% or 5% are same build, just different colors. Prefer Audyn and Jantzen to them, but will use them in a cheap build.
I agree with this but I have never used the Audyns or the silvers.
Trying to figure out how to measure these individually since they share the same enclosure space. If I leave the other unplugged it will act like a poorly tuned PR. I could pull the other driver and stuff the hole with foam. Or would nearfield measurements tell me all I'd need anyway?
Why not just measure together, that is how you will be listening. Otherwise, you might try shorting the driver that is not being measured. If shorted, it will be heavily damped and hopefully not move much.
@DrewsBrews said:
Trying to figure out how to measure these individually since they share the same enclosure space. If I leave the other unplugged it will act like a poorly tuned PR. I could pull the other driver and stuff the hole with foam. Or would nearfield measurements tell me all I'd need anyway?
This is what I would do:
1) Remove the upper driver and fill the cab with bricks to cut the volume in half.
2) Make a 1/2" thick circular plug with 4 mounting holes and then bolt this plug over the hole using the removed driver's screws.
3) Measure far field FRD and ZMA for the lower driver.
4) Swap out the plug and driver from the upper to the lower holes and then measure the other driver alone.
The alligator clip connections started being finicky so I went ahead and soldered it up and zip tied down since it is just two parts sofar (swapped out the cap too). I did a quick fr sweep of all the drivers but it was a bit of a tossup which ones to use as the mains.
Did a little quiet listening before bed. Gave me goosebumps. I might have to rename these "Nightcaps". Cant wait to crank em a bit tomorrow.
I just finished voicing my Indy 2025 theme build last night. Mine aren't all pretty like yours are. Just raw particle board for now.
Only two filter parts? Wow! That's impressive. I ended up needing a padding resistor for my fullrange so I'm up to 5 parts per side now. I look forward to hearing your project and all the others in the theme.
@Wolf said:
I like the Standard Z caps, especially when space is a concern. A bit of sparkle. Crosscaps don't do anything wrong, but suffice. I like the Silvers over the 'Sup. I generally like the Audyn Q4, this last time being the only time they didn't work well. Dayton 1% or 5% are same build, just different colors. Prefer Audyn and Jantzen to them, but will use them in a cheap build.
I like the Audyn Q4 and Jatzen Crosscaps. I have used a ton of the Audyn's and every single one measured way better than 1% tolerance for uF value. Most times they are only less than $1 more than the Daytons. A couple values are actually a few cents less. They sound great to me.
I plopped my ass down on the couch this morning to listen and didn't get up for about 3.5hrs. Definitely sound better now with soldered connections. They seem to live up to much of the fabled "magic" I read about fullrangers. I'd attribute most of this to the engineers who designed these drivers though. Especially when they go for $15ea ($13.77 at the 4+ quantity). They seem to measure better on the baffle than the factory graph:
-Individual measurements of each of two drivers in a single cabinet (no parts in signal path for measuring). Placed on the floor firing up with the other driver shorted. The drivers aren't mounted vertically symmetrical: The distance from the top driver to the top edge is different compared to the bottom driver from the bottom edge. I suspect that is the reason for the larger deviations between the measurements. The other drivers in the other cabinet exhibited very similar differences.
I think it would be a neat first build (high juice:squeeze) for someone wanting to get their feet wet in the hobby. It could be rather functionally cloned with all PE sourced parts, including .56cf knockdown cabinets. Even the ports were unmodified 260-474 units.
Comments
Mahogany says hello!
I haven't had the chance to work with nice wood species until more recently. So it still surprizes me. Amazing what just dewaxed shellac will do. I still don't know why shellac isn't more of a go-to finish for DIY speakers. So many positives, and the negatives are pretty much nullified by how convenient touchups are compared to any other finish.
I used diamond on my version of Scott's Matrix Revolution speakers. Scott used the standard mount.
Here is a comparison:
Aaand I think thats all the coats I need. done in under 3hrs. including a very light sand after the first couple coats to knock down the hairs. Seriously guys, save the arm-r-seal for rough use items like tables and countertops. It isn't necessary for speakers when you can have this in a few hours...
Applied and dried indoors since it doesn't stink so bad like poly. My wife was in the next room over with an open doorway between and she never said a word about the smell. If I did that with poly she would have lit my ass up! I'll let it outgass most of the remaining alcohol overnight then I'll try rubbing with a brown paper bag to see if that knocks down the gloss to more of a satin.
I love that stuff. Dries very fast.
That stuff is pretty nice, I use it as a first coat sealer before applying Waterlox.
Just test lead connection inside. Easy enough to drop a cap and coil at the bottom. Doing some break in by just listening to em but couldn't do so very loud last night (still woke the wife up, oops).
Looks great, that veneer and finish is beautiful. In this case, I certainly prefer the diamond mounting of the drivers. I think it fills the vertical space better and is visually appealing.
Thanks!
I tried rubbing with brown paper bag, but wasn't getting much effect. I tried 0000 steel wool. That made them too dull.
I rubbed on some Howard Feed-N-Wax. Perfect!
I moved the other speakers out and put these on stands.
Witnessing the drivers get better as they play is always interesting. I still need to test each driver to see which pair matches best and orient those as the mains. I am a bit apprehensive to take a complete measurement as that might drive me to start making changes. They are pretty satisfying as-is.
Sofar, I would agree with measurements others took of the pc105. On axis, the very top octave seems boosted, which gives the usual effect of seeming more detailed and dynamic for plucked strings and gravely voices, etc. If that becomes too much just toe them out a little.
They got bass! I can definately tell when they are "on the port" as I can only have them a foot away from the wall before they are in the way of walking space in my livingroom. It is definately finding my room modes. Makes them a bit boomy in the bottom octave. Normally a pet peeve of mine but, in many tracks it is either well masked or accentuates nicely so I'll try to get used to it. I honestly figured it would be worse due to full BSC of the second driver. Maybe the 1ohm DCR of the air core is dropping the output of the second driver enough above resonance that I'm not noticing an excess. I wonder if a ~30ohm resistor across the second driver might drop the resonance peak a tad for a little less boomines. But I need to bite the bullet and run leads out the ports if I'm going to start experimenting (doh, there I go).
I think they look really nice. To me, the diamond arrangment looks more dynamic.
I was poking around the storage bins and realized I have some Jantzen crosscaps in correct value I forgot about. I've never realy had the chance to experience cap differences, but I guess I might as well use those vs the PE 5%ers.
I have done comparisions between the Dayton caps and Superior Z caps. Obvious difference. The standard Z cap I think sounds a bit cleaner than the Dayton. The Crosscap to me doesn't sound any better. I might like the Dayton better. It's close. Dayton has two different caps. The ones with yellow ends and white ends. I haven't done a serious listening test between the two. My comparisons have been with the yellow ones.
I like the Standard Z caps, especially when space is a concern. A bit of sparkle. Crosscaps don't do anything wrong, but suffice. I like the Silvers over the 'Sup. I generally like the Audyn Q4, this last time being the only time they didn't work well. Dayton 1% or 5% are same build, just different colors. Prefer Audyn and Jantzen to them, but will use them in a cheap build.
InDIYana Event Website
I agree with this but I have never used the Audyns or the silvers.
Trying to figure out how to measure these individually since they share the same enclosure space. If I leave the other unplugged it will act like a poorly tuned PR. I could pull the other driver and stuff the hole with foam. Or would nearfield measurements tell me all I'd need anyway?
Why not just measure together, that is how you will be listening. Otherwise, you might try shorting the driver that is not being measured. If shorted, it will be heavily damped and hopefully not move much.
This is what I would do:
1) Remove the upper driver and fill the cab with bricks to cut the volume in half.
2) Make a 1/2" thick circular plug with 4 mounting holes and then bolt this plug over the hole using the removed driver's screws.
3) Measure far field FRD and ZMA for the lower driver.
4) Swap out the plug and driver from the upper to the lower holes and then measure the other driver alone.
Since they have had some breakin time Im looking to see which pair matches in response best to use as the main drivers.
Ok, I thought you were trying to measure independent FRD and ZMA files to set up your XSim, PCD, or VituixCAD model.
Yes, apologies I should have specified that. Though I may play around with a combination of your guys' ideas. Thanks for the input!
The alligator clip connections started being finicky so I went ahead and soldered it up and zip tied down since it is just two parts sofar (swapped out the cap too). I did a quick fr sweep of all the drivers but it was a bit of a tossup which ones to use as the mains.
Did a little quiet listening before bed. Gave me goosebumps. I might have to rename these "Nightcaps". Cant wait to crank em a bit tomorrow.
Great work!
I just finished voicing my Indy 2025 theme build last night. Mine aren't all pretty like yours are. Just raw particle board for now.
Only two filter parts? Wow! That's impressive. I ended up needing a padding resistor for my fullrange so I'm up to 5 parts per side now. I look forward to hearing your project and all the others in the theme.
I like the Audyn Q4 and Jatzen Crosscaps. I have used a ton of the Audyn's and every single one measured way better than 1% tolerance for uF value. Most times they are only less than $1 more than the Daytons. A couple values are actually a few cents less. They sound great to me.
Typically, I do not find the Q4 lacking either. Those darn Wavecor cone tweeters just didn't like them.
InDIYana Event Website
I plopped my ass down on the couch this morning to listen and didn't get up for about 3.5hrs. Definitely sound better now with soldered connections. They seem to live up to much of the fabled "magic" I read about fullrangers. I'd attribute most of this to the engineers who designed these drivers though. Especially when they go for $15ea ($13.77 at the 4+ quantity). They seem to measure better on the baffle than the factory graph:
-Individual measurements of each of two drivers in a single cabinet (no parts in signal path for measuring). Placed on the floor firing up with the other driver shorted. The drivers aren't mounted vertically symmetrical: The distance from the top driver to the top edge is different compared to the bottom driver from the bottom edge. I suspect that is the reason for the larger deviations between the measurements. The other drivers in the other cabinet exhibited very similar differences.
I think it would be a neat first build (high juice:squeeze) for someone wanting to get their feet wet in the hobby. It could be rather functionally cloned with all PE sourced parts, including .56cf knockdown cabinets. Even the ports were unmodified 260-474 units.