Couple of new items coming from Dayton

isaeagle4031

Geoff shared a few pics from the Dayton booth at CES. Very interesting to say the least. 

Dsp unit 4in 8 out 31band eqs on ea in, 6 band peq on ea out, full bandpass crossovers on ea out and fully assignable, Bluetooth for iOS(pending) and Android apps. Remote and priced at $199. Possibly Mar release date.

New drivers Neo mags and carbon fiber cones 5.25 and 8" $300 and $400 respectively. 

Wolf

I think that cost will be hard to swallow...

jhollander

That DSP looks interesting

isaeagle4031

RS28 replacements. Target price of $29.

Gowa

RS28=copper?

jr@mac

The tinsel leads are not even stitched into the spider - wtf? 

Tom_S

That DSP unit looks somewhat similar to the Cadence DSP4.8. If it doesn't have issues like the Cadence seemed to suffer from, they should sell a ton of those to the car stereo crowd.

isaeagle4031

Gowa said:

RS28=copper?

Actually, I think lack of copper, but that is only speculation 

isaeagle4031

Lot of differences there Tom. Look, eq, Bluetooth, etc. This is a new product near as I can tell.

I thought the same thing JR. 

Gowa

Wolf said:

I think that cost will be hard to swallow...

Those look like of the shelf frames. I hope not for that price. But the 8'' frame looks a little big for that surround. I may be wrong of course.

dcibel

Yes, they do look like an off-the-shelf frame. I don't see a problem with that however, there's a bunch of real nice drivers that use "standard" frames such as Wavecor, and Acoustic Elegance.

You are right on the surround meeting up with the frame, I had the same issue with the look of the Esoteric drivers where the surround sticks out past the frame, it doesn't look clean, which you'd expect considering the cost. A $30 Silver Flute should be a good example of what a clean driver can look like, and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to get there.

jr@mac

Yeah, the 8" looks a little awkward vis-a-vis surround and frame. The 5" seems relatively well appointed in that regards. The 8" looks like it was assembled piecemeal from a shelf full of shit. 

I have no problem with off-the-shelf frames, but at this (alleged) price point I would like to have seen something similar to the Illuminator/Satori/NE frame types. I have $30 drivers that use a similar frame to these, and lets face it - when you have Scan/Accuton in your sights and your name is Dayton Audio, you had better be bringing your A-game. That means showing you did your homework, including spending a little time on the frame style.

Dayton may have a winner here, I doubt most Scan Speak or Accuton fanboys will give two shits about these drivers (their minds are generally made up), but it may introduce a number of people to the concept of spending a metric fuckton of money on a pair of woofers - and the smarter commercial guys will be following these very closely. 

D1PP1N

dcibel said:

Yes, they do look like an off-the-shelf frame. I don't see a problem with that however, there's a bunch of real nice drivers that use "standard" frames such as Wavecor, and Acoustic Elegance.

You are right on the surround meeting up with the frame, I had the same issue with the look of the Esoteric drivers where the surround sticks out past the frame, it doesn't look clean, which you'd expect considering the cost. A $30 Silver Flute should be a good example of what a clean driver can look like, and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to get there.

How are the silver flutes? They have some good low pricepoint drivers 7-8" range i was eyeballing. Just skepticap to buy them without hearing their capabilities in person. 

isaeagle4031

Flutes have a nice relaxed sound. They are not super articulate but are forgiving of poor source material.They don't dig super deep, but do hold their own well.

dcibel

D1PP1N said:

dcibel said:

Yes, they do look like an off-the-shelf frame. I don't see a problem with that however, there's a bunch of real nice drivers that use "standard" frames such as Wavecor, and Acoustic Elegance.

You are right on the surround meeting up with the frame, I had the same issue with the look of the Esoteric drivers where the surround sticks out past the frame, it doesn't look clean, which you'd expect considering the cost. A $30 Silver Flute should be a good example of what a clean driver can look like, and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to get there.

How are the silver flutes? They have some good low pricepoint drivers 7-8" range i was eyeballing. Just skepticap to buy them without hearing their capabilities in person. 

I've used the 8" and felt it was a great value. They aren't distortion leaders (basic motor with no copper), but nothing offensive about the sound either, I'd say they have the "classic paper" sound. I liked them very much as a retrofit for an old Realistic tower, and thought the build quality was phenomenal for the cost. They don't dig as deep as most drivers of their size, but you do get higher than average sensitivity as well.

Gowa

I agree, the Flutes are quite good for the price point. I had some a few years ago that I was quite happy with. I couldn't see anything wrong with the build quality. Nice and neat. I think if you're looking to build something with an economic pinch, the Flutes should serve you well. I think there was a Canadian company that used them in pricey floor-standers.

D1PP1N

Okay, thats perfect. Im was thinking about when friends and family ask me to build stuff for them im trying to find the best bang for your buck drivers that are obviously not high quality but sound way better than they should. Either way it would be hard to sound worse than what alot of people are using. I know alot of people that just use their tv as speakers and i simply would barely watch any television without a set of good speakers. I think think that mcm 2669 5-1/4 is a really good sounding driver for $18. Im looking for killer sounding budget tweeter. 

They usually dont believe me until they hear one of my systems. Usually they walk around trying to find a sub. I let them struggle to find them before saying yeh i dont have a sub dude.  

jhollander

D1PP1N said:

 Im looking for killer sounding budget tweeter.   

DX20 for $12, just saying...

PWRRYD

Or the Dayton ND25FW for a few more.clams.

Wolf

 when you have Scan/Accuton in your sights and your name is Dayton Audio, you had better be bringing your A-game. That means showing you did your homework, including spending a little time on the frame style.

Thing is- Accuton uses that same frame in quite a few of their drivers.

jr@mac

So did MCM. 

Wolf

Yep.

ani_101

So I guess, it's not the frame, but what's in between the frame counts? and of course the name tag....

jr@mac

I mention frames because Accuton is Accuton, and Dayton Audio is not Accuton or Illuminator or Satori or Revelator. Those other names stand on their own, it remains to be seen if Dayton Audio can design a $300 5" midwoofer - their recent track record indicates a good chance these drivers will be revised sooner than later. 

It is an image thing - the Accuton fanboys will accept whatever Accuton tells them to accept. Dayton Audio has to work a lot harder - and one way they could do that is by investing in some custom tooling. 

jr@mac

ani_101 said:

So I guess, it's not the frame, but what's in between the frame counts? and of course the name tag....

The frame is very important, perhaps not as important as the motor, but it contributes significantly to the overall performance of the driver. Whether it is reduced backwave reflections or helping focus the magnetic field, allowing under spider venting, minimizing flexing/ringing (although cast aluminum actually makes for a very nice bell material). So yes, frames count. 

rjj45

It's hard to understand how a company like Parts Express, who knows SO much about speakers could have so much trouble designing and producing some great new designs. I agree with the business positioning - something better than the RS series, on a par with Usher / Rival / SB.  I don't think that they will be successful (anytime soon) by going after the AT / Accuton market.

I'm looking forward to the Esoterics V3 from PE.  That's my sweet spot right now.

isaeagle4031

When Daren k or Rory worked for PE, they had someone capable of designing a driver from scratch. That is not really an option for them now. 

PWRRYD

"Me too" rarely works out all that well.

rjj45

OK, I'll go "occam's razor" on this question.
Maybe PE had a major manufacturer expressed a need for more high end choices.
If they had a commitment for a certain quantity, it would take out some of the risk of a new product budget.

jr@mac

It is possible - but I have to ask if Dayton Audio is high on the list for ultra-high end manufacturers as a go-to for engineering drivers. 

I think Dayton is throwing a hail mary with this new line - and I honestly hope it works out for them. At this price range though, any deficiencies in performance or build quality will be hammered on, and rightfully so. Every aspect of the appearance and the performance is, and should be, subject to minute scrutiny. This isn't like shrugging our shoulders and saying "Well, it is a $25 driver, we will work around this or that". 

Dayton has not exactly been successful at engineering drivers for quite some time, at least not at the "first batch" level. This was true when Rory worked there, incidentally - the Esoteric line came out under his watch. 

So we wait and see and hope Vance or someone like him will throw one on the Klippel and we can see what is what. 

jr@mac

PS: I am not blaming Rory.