Site Links
Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Categories
In this Discussion
Who's Online (2)
- Analogkid455 10:07AM
- rjj45 10:07AM
FM...no static at all.
I've been dreaming of buying an RF signal generator that covers the FM band for a few years. Without one, aligning tuners in vintage gear is impossible. Prices for one of the preferred models (HP, Sencore, Sound Technologies, etc.) were just more than I was willing to spend. I was looking on eBay last weekend when I noticed one seller had multiple Leader models with built-in FM stereo multiplexing for sale. They all looked really clean, he said they work properly, and the price was too good to pass up. It shipped on Monday - arrived on Wednesday. I watched a few youtube videos, read through the manual, and rearranged the rack. It seems to function perfectly, but I ordered a little GPS receiver module to hack into. Then I can compare that to the Leader's internal 10MHz clock.
I also needed a way to measure distortion from an external source when setting the stereo demultiplex circuit. Luckily, Visual Analyzer is donationware that works well enough for FM tuner alignment. The noise floor using a Focusrite 2i2 is probably high when compared to an expensive HP unit, but I've been told it's fine for this simple task. I still need to explore some of the features in the software, but it did the job.
It took a few hours of trial and error, searching the web for answers, but I got my first patient dialed in. Things were way out of whack and stereo was barely working, but now this low-end SX-434 can pull in stations I never even knew existed. And that's here in the basement with a cheap 300 ohm dipole antenna. The before/after sonic difference really surprised me.
Comments
Most impressive, Tom_S.
Very nice (busy) set-up.
I have 2 of those FocusRite 2i2 units and find them to be very quiet but if they get knocked around the chassis grounding spring loses good contact and then the volume knob gets scratchy in the audio. Just open the case and slide the board out then in again and be sure the spring is connected to bare metal and not the anodizing.
Hey Tom, looks like you have moved up to the "full-stereo-FM-alignment-tech" level. Congrats! Must be watching alot of Mr Carlson and xraytonyb videos. I'm still a "partial-FM-alignment-tech" myself, limited to the stuff I can do with just an oscilloscope and 20Meg function generator. So now you can go through your complete collection of Pioneer receivers and bring them all up to factory specs!
Ooooh, those are some nice toys ya got there!
The number of people who can do tuner alignments is dwindling, so you could make a business out of it.
I think those were made by Panasonic, who also made the levear.
Well, I've only done one little Pioneer so far, so I think I still have a lot learn. I must have spent an hour just figuring out those fiddly little plastic tools and doing the first actual adjustment - tuning a lower core. Wait...there's a hole in bottom of the board for that? It might be nice to tell us that in the service manual!
My goal is to turn this into a part-time gig, keep my brain from turning to mush, and maybe in a few years I can retire from my day job.
I think you're right Nick. I did notice the resemblance to the Panasonic/Levear units. This seller must have bought a truckload. He still has a few of these Leaders and some nice, but pricey, audio analyzers.
https://ebay.com/itm/364173658393?hash=item54ca710919:g:whAAAOSwujVkB2RU
Bill - I do watch xraytonyb's videos almost daily! Not so much Mr. Carlson's Lab, for some reason. The video series that prompted me to give it a shot were by Ray Giannelli. He covered almost every question I had about the process.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=O_MKNp423bg
Thanks for the reference. I was not aware of Ray Giannelli. Looks like he has been making vids for about 2 years or so. He seems to be using a very good diagnosis and repair technique, just like Tony and Carlson.
I'm going to have to go back and see if Blueglow had any videos on tuner alignments. He may have, but I wasn't interested in that aspect a few years ago. I may have just bypassed those videos. It's unfortunate Mark is too busy to post anything new on YouTube or even on his own forum. He had such great momentum going and then just fell off the face of the earth.
I can't stomach watching 12VoltVids. He knows his stuff, from what little I've seen. But he doesn't treat other people's gear very well.
You are amazing Tom! Love what you are doing with these great older pieces. A total divergance from our current culture of "use it, abuse it, then send it to the landfill". Hats off man!
I wish I could have saved more. In hindsight, I really should have been spending more money at Goodwill & garage sales 20 years ago. These old receivers & amps have turned out to be amazing investments.
Not sure about "investment" potential from old tuners and receivers TBH. There are a couple of "vintage audio" stores around me that are packed with these items. They don't sell. Most FM broadcasts are garbage these days in terms of quality and content. And with HD radio there is often a bunch of interference from the HD sidebands on the analog main channel that is not filtered out well by the old analog circuits, producing some odd noises.
I do like tuners and I have had some nice older units from Sansui (2 or 3 different models), Luxman, Kenwood, and so on. I recently purchased (from Germany) a Revox B261 in perfect working condition and it didn't cost all that much even with shipping! I will bring it back there with me when I move next year since it has the correct FM de-emphasis for Europe. It is extremely well made and cost something like US$2000 in the 1980s when it was originally sold.
I think if you wanted to invest in something in a timely manner it would (have been) to buy up a bunch of old classic turntables (Dual, Thorens, Technics, etc) before the silly vinyl craze began. I am sure that would have made you a pretty penny.
Some of the Marantz and Sansuis in really good condition go for a lot.
I was thinking about how much I paid in the early 2000s for decent vintage gear at Goodwill and church sales. Picked up a near mint Pioneer SA-9900 for $3.48 in 2004. It was filthy & smelly, like it had been in a hog barn for a few decades. But it cleaned up and everything worked after cleaning the pots & switches. Those are going for $1000-$1700 these days. Wish I had a few hundred pieces like that!
I'm not really much of a vinyl guy, but I do have small stable of decent turntables. You could barely give TTs away 20 years ago. I gave 2 or 3 away to coworkers. The personal favorite in my collection is a very modest Sansui 626. I paid $15 for it at a church sale. It's just a basic, solid, unassuming table & arm. Some day I'll sell the Duals, Technics, and even the Thorens. Vinyl is just too much work.
Yeah - I'm shocked to see the 2238 I bought for $25 in 2004 is now going for nearly $1K if restored. That's a little crazy.
About 4 years ago I wanted a vintage receiver and love Marantz stuff. I looked at the 22## models (maybe 2270) and like you said, about $1000. I then looked at Sansui 8080's and the same thing. I got a Sansui 5050 in fair (fair = not that good) shape for maybe $200-$250. It's got some issues and I don't when I'll get around to trying to fix it. Unlike you, I have no knowledge of such things, other than I googled how to restore a vintage amp and was intimidated.
A 5050 is a nice receiver. Not sure where you're located, but if you are close, I would be happy to help get it running right. I've been quite surprised how many issues turn out to be cracked solder joints and dirty switches & pots.
Mark Wilson is the best tuner guy I've ever seen. Not sure if he's still alive, I don't see him listed on fmtunerinfo.com any longer. I worked for him in the early 80s.
Most of the tuners were averaged tuned from the factory and could be improved upon even new.
It's good to see someone doing it again, not sure if I could anymore, too many years.....
At one time I yearned to buy a vintage top of the line Yamaha receiver like a CR-1020, CR-1040. CR-2040, etc. but either they were in too poor condition or in great or restored condition and going for over $1k.
I added another piece of test gear to the bench today. It will replace a Fluke 8000a that's a bit temperamental in it's old age. The Keithly is no spring chicken, but it has an auto function and it's much easier to read that the Fluke. Seems to be dialed in well enough for what I'm doing. It's not really missing any digits. I think that's the camera shutter speed catching the display refresh.
It's satisfying when a small lightbulb goes off in your brain. Watching one of xraytonyb's videos (for the 2nd or 3rd time) and consulting the schematic for an old Philips receiver I'm currently working on, it dawned on me that the filtering in the RF circuitry behaves just like a crossover. We are tuning second order LC or CL circuits. Sometimes it takes a while for the big concepts to slap me in the face.
So now I have even more test gear on the way. My cheap littler signal generator doesn't have a sync output to feed my scope. I need to generate a Bode plot to tune some intermediate filters on some of the older receivers. Heck, I didn't even know what a Bode plot was a week ago! One of the new Siglent units does more than I need and the price was right, so the equipment rack should fill to overflowing in the next few days. I also had to make a little passive RF probe - not sure it even works yet.
With the obvious reference to Steely Dan, I keep expecting to see a link to this tribute to them...
