ND25FW-4 measurements

PWRRYD

Tweeters laying on pillows on floor facing straight up.  OmniMic 1 foot away:

jr@mac

Looks great! Glad I picked up a pair.

Mzisserson

That doesn't suck!

PWRRYD

1/24th octave smoothing.

D1PP1N

Anyone know how these two tweeters would compare? They are withing a few dollars of each other. 

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/53-5150

Nicholas_23

so which dayton tweeter did they mount a waveguide/horn to? or is this a completely new design ? Disappointed I missed the sale after seeing this 

jr@mac

D1PP1N said:

Anyone know how these two tweeters would compare? They are withing a few dollars of each other. 

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/53-5150

What are you looking to accomplish? They are truly two different animals. 

PWRRYD

Grabbed some quick impedance measurements before work this morning:

jr@mac

What I mean is, the little MCM offers a low Fs, small form factor and very low distortion above 2500-3000Hz. You can cross it over low enough to meet 5-6" woofers with ease, and the small form factor allows tight center-to-center spacing. Or, you can use it with a smaller midrange and cross it high enough that diffraction artifacts are kept to a minimum. 

The Dayton you can probably cross at 2K to a 6-7"  if you do so aggressively and you can match directivity to your midrange. The larger faceplate will necessitate the lower crossover point. Additionally, the horn minimizes baffle effects all by itself, simplifying crossover design.

Both look like very high value drivers, but are really meant for different purposes. 

For example, I plan on trying the Dayton in a 2-way studio monitor style speaker with a high value 6.5" woofer. The MCM I am using in a small 3-way - crossing out of the majority of the diffraction effect range, which is already minimized by some aggressive rounding over. 

So, for a medium sized 2-way, the Dayton will be the better choice. For a medium sized 3-way or small 2-way, the MCM is very sufficient. 

D1PP1N

A few guys at work are interested in speakers but in order to make it worth my time to build and sell a few i need to use low cost drivers. So i was thinking the mcm 5-1/4" with the mcm tweeter. Basically no one wants to spend what we are willing to spend in most cases. 

PWRRYD

That should work well Mike.  

My Dayton waveguide cheapies are going in a project I am calling Den Tretton (Swedish for "The Thirteens").  They will be MTMs using the MCM 5.25" 55-2669.  I purchased the ND25FW on sale last week for $13, and the woofers were on sale for $12.99 (close enough to 13).  These babies should rock for only $78 in drivers!

ani_101

D1PP1N said:

A few guys at work are interested in speakers but in order to make it worth my time to build and sell a few i need to use low cost drivers. So i was thinking the mcm 5-1/4" with the mcm tweeter. Basically no one wants to spend what we are willing to spend in most cases. 

In which case it is easier to point them to a big box store. the Pioneer speakers or wharfedale for under 500 a pair makes more sense. Even If i use dirt cheap or free speakers, with the box, finish, crossovers, binding posts, stuffing etc, I can't get it under the commercial ones.

Turn2

jr@mac said:

D1PP1N said:

Anyone know how these two tweeters would compare? They are withing a few dollars of each other. 

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/53-5150

What are you looking to accomplish? They are truly two different animals. 

I agree. However, there is a non-waveguide Dayton ND25TA-4 that DOES resemble the MCM model.

jr@mac

The MCM offers a pretty well thought out rear chamber, though. 

PWRRYD

I can't remember, did you post a set of measurements for the 53-5150 JR?  If not I have a pair on the shelf and could do a simple laying on a pillow pointing up set of measurements.

D1PP1N

$500 is way out of the ballpark for speakers id realistically get $150-200 a pair unfinished or duratexed. Chances are even $60 in drivers for a small 2way should easily surpass anything they currently have with HTIB stuff. 

PWRRYD

I completely agree Mike.  I recently gifted a pair of two ways to our bass player at Church.  I had about $100 total in parts/materials.  He was blown away.  I don't count my labor as a cost because I love designing/building speakers.

jr@mac

PWRRYD said:

I can't remember, did you post a set of measurements for the 53-5150 JR?  If not I have a pair on the shelf and could do a simple laying on a pillow pointing up set of measurements.

I did!

Mzisserson

Turn2 said:

jr@mac said:

D1PP1N said:

Anyone know how these two tweeters would compare? They are withing a few dollars of each other. 

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/53-5150

What are you looking to accomplish? They are truly two different animals. 

I agree. However, there is a non-waveguide Dayton ND25TA-4 that DOES resemble the MCM model.

I will post measurements of these shortly after the 1st of the year. 

PSchumacher

not bad looking, and really nice distortion performance. The guide though is killing the top octave by being too deep for the diameter.  Why don't they just make the dang thing a little bigger and put a more gradual curve on it?

PWRRYD

While I fully agree with you Pete, I think their Marketing angle was that it is dimensionally a drop in fit for a typical 104 mm diameter tweeter rebate (not that that matters a lick to most of us DIY speaker builders).  Anyway I can't hear too much above 14k so I'm hoping its performance meets my expectations.

Mzisserson

Got the Daytons today. Ill measure them over the holiday and hopeflyy have some data posted by Tuesday timeframe.

PWRRYD

Cool Mike.  What is your plan for them?

Mzisserson

PWRRYD said:

Cool Mike.  What is your plan for them?

A super top-secret project that will be revealed in the fullness if time. 

I think I could get in trouble, but since it is relevant here and now, its woth the reis of a few measurements.... Not like I am giving away the farm or anything  

jr@mac

I have a pair sitting here plus a cabinet they will drop into, I will take a few sweeps as well. 

My plan is no secret, however, I think these are very useful tweeters for use in affordable monitors. I plan on shopping a pair around this spring to the local recording scene. I have a couple pair here and there already, but you never know.

Turn2

Mzisserson said:

Got the Daytons today. Ill measure them over the holiday and hopeflyy have some data posted by Tuesday timeframe.

Mike, is it the waveguide ND25 or the metal dome you have in hand?

Mzisserson

Turn2 said:

Mzisserson said:

Got the Daytons today. Ill measure them over the holiday and hopeflyy have some data posted by Tuesday timeframe.

Mike, is it the waveguide ND25 or the metal dome you have in hand?

It is the Ti dome, non-WG.

Mzisserson

jr@mac said:

I have a pair sitting here plus a cabinet they will drop into, I will take a few sweeps as well. 

My plan is no secret, however, I think these are very useful tweeters for use in affordable monitors. I plan on shopping a pair around this spring to the local recording scene. I have a couple pair here and there already, but you never know.

Anytime you can get good sound into good hands is a good thing. You never know how close you are to the right place at the right time. Good luck brother!

Mzisserson

Hey guys....Im sorry. My brother from Virginia came up ad a suprise over the holidays and I never had a chance to measure tge Ti tweeters. 

I will get to them by week's end. Promise. 

Mzisserson

ND25TA

As usual, The Dayton drivers are consistent. One has a hair-lip around 15K we will see what the Fq measurements say about that. FS(es) of 1472, 1465, and 1383. Close enough to the 1470 for me, anyway. The one with the 15K blip is the 1383 Fs, extra fluid in the gap maybe? I did not post the individual pic of the other two because they have nothing interesting going on. 

Frequency and distortion by the end of this week. I promise! 
 

Mzisserson

Alrighty. 

3 Samples of the ND25TA 1/48th smoothed, "IB" (on layers of foam 3 feet around the tweeter, tweeter flush to the foam surface). 1M distance


Distortion. I am unsure the weird jump on 2nd order. I was hearing a ring I have never heard when I was testing. It sounded like the heat-sink on my amp woop-wooping along with the test. I will have to see once in a speaker since all the other distortion is very good. As is, I am thinking 2.5K 2lr would be the limits of these things. 3rd order (purplish/magenta) is almost non-existent on these things. 



Last is test unit 3, 0-30deg off axis.