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For my future reference
For some of you that have made kits and sold them to Parts Express meniscus Madisound, ect. Do you sell the design to these places and get a royalty’s or a one time check or maybe a deeper discount on their website. I’ve always been curious of that.
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Most of the time. there is no payment. We do it because its kind of cool to have your name out there as a designer. The closest I have come to payment was keeping the drivers used in the design.
Jeff Bagby was paid for his Solstice design from PE, sort of. DIYSoundgroup does pay royalties to their designers. How much, I am not sure.
I did it because I loved how my project turned out and thought it would be fun to make it available as a kit so anyone could buy it and also love it. Mark mentioned there would be a small (beer like) royalty for each one sold. I haven't seen any beers but I also have no idea how many have been sold. No biggy, I didn't do it for that and Mark/Meniscus is a great resource and contributor to our hobby.
I did https://projectgallery.parts-express.com/speaker-projects/e-array/ for PE. They gave me parts, complain about the cost of the speaker and I think sold 2 or 3 sets. I gave the speaker away to someone. For me it was an opportunity to experiment on a new design without investing in parts.
I have had a little royalty come my way from Meniscus. Apparently, the Zinger kit has sold pretty well. I suppose the more kits you have through them, the more the royalties pile up.
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I have heard that at least one individual had a royalty arrangement with PE for kits.
I had a brief discussion about one of my designs and know that their more recent preference is a one-time store credit for rights to the design, which I think in most cases is fair. When they had the design team 5-6 years ago, they supplied parts for our projects and we got a small store credit for completed/published projects.
Then there's this from HiVi
A thank you might have been nice... At least they acknowledged the name of the mod.
Sehlin Sound Solutions
You should send them a letter from a fake law firm and see how they react.
That's the ultimate back handed complement.
Yes, this is their normal practice, even since 2007. I am in the habit of not selling the rights of my designs just to get them published. I understand being a part of their team, or being commissioned to build a design for them would constitute a likely arrangement of some sort, but I would not be surprised if the agreement changed or was not honored fully by the end if with that party in question.
I can tell this story in person should anyone ask me...
I don't get those kind of issues working with Meniscus and Mark/Chad. They are top notch, and not into trying to stake claims to what is not their own.
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There was someone that did have a royalty arrangement with PE for a very popular kit. The person he spoke to left PE and they decided to not honor the agreement though he could show all of the correspondence. He vowed never to work with that company again.
There's one famous kit which must have sold in decent numbers, I hope the designer has received something reasonable for his design - after all, it has all-Dayton drivers, which increases PE's sales.
Geoff
...and didn't. That person leaving involved a HUGE fiasco and shakedown too.
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I, for one would rather source my own parts, But thats because I’m a fellow from Down Under, and the Australian/NZ market for this kind of thing is probably a tiny fraction of an already small fraction of general consumers. So shipping items often costs just as much as the parts. I’ve often had to kindly request from Mark@Meniscus if I could buy a kit- “but please don’t send or sell me those bulky/heavy units (eg. woofers)”
I don’t bother with PE because they don’t even respond.
But is it really worth it selling your IP for a few beers? (Rhetorical question)
How much is the royalties worth anyway? If it’s not 4 figures it’s really not worth your integrity to the likes of HiVi. Look I live in the real world and I acknowledge that I can be bought. But it needs a few extra zeros at the end of that cheque before I would consider it.
Is there another funding arrangement?
In the modern age surely a direct deposit via PayPal or (Pay)Wize. Or a GoFundMe campaign or Kickstarter.
As a consumer what I would pay for is a key turn type of arrangement eg. CNC plans I can send to my cabinet maker.
Other consumers might want to build their own cabinets- so what about a password protected PDF for a small fee? (<$ XX)
Like what SL used to do with his kits.
For instance, a Jim Holtz/Curt Campbell project funded via Kickstarter- that’s something I’d contribute to. All those Fountek and Vifa drivers are going the way of the dodo. And the Statement II.
I would rather source my own parts, But thats because I’m a fellow from Down Under, and the Australian/NZ market for this kind of thing is probably a tiny fraction of an already small fraction of general consumers. So shipping items often costs just as much as the parts. I’ve often had to kindly request from Mark@Meniscus if I could buy a kit- “but please don’t send or sell me those bulky/heavy units (eg. woofers)” (I don’t bother with PE because they don’t even respond)
But I get that a full kit from a one-stop-shop that offers “free ground shipping to 48 states” is appealing.
But is it really worth selling your IP for a few beers?
How much is the royalties worth anyway? If it’s not 4 figures it’s really not worth your integrity. (HiVi copies Dynaudio so as if they care about ripping off one’s crossover design)
Look I live in the real world and I acknowledge that we can all be bought.
It just depends on the number of extra zeros at the end of that cheque.
Is there another funding arrangement?
In the modern age surely a direct deposit via PayPal or (Pay)Wize. Or a GoFundMe campaign or Kickstarter. For instance, a Statement III project funded via Kickstarter- that’s something I’d contribute to.
As a consumer I would pay for a key turn type of arrangement Eg.
I) Plans in a password protected PDF.
II) CNC plans I can send to my cabinet maker.
III) short video posted on YouTube regarding layout of crossover,
IV) 3D printer plans I can have those teeny tiny speakers that Wolf designs.
For instance, with all those NLA drivers from Vifa and Fountek, a Statement III type project funded via Kickstarter- that’s something I’d contribute to!
I think it depends on the vendor. I think people would gladly assist Mark/Meniscus because he supports the community and has integrity.
I think some (most) do the work and release the IP as a way to further the science/ hobby. Most of the designs are originally built to fill a need of the designer, not to make a kit for retail.
I've been lucky to spend a decent amount of time with Mark and he is just as nice and genuine as everyone says.
I'll clarify my comments and situation.
With all that said, I was surprised that HiVi went ahead and incorporated my mod, and advertised they were doing so (which they kind of had to do after the ASR review) without in any way attempting to contact me. Even though there is no formal IP rights restriction from a legal sense, as an IP manager I would want to close that loop, especially since there is already a public review of the mod out there and traceability with respect to where it came from.
Sehlin Sound Solutions