No idea what was wrong. I took down everything, and then setup everything. This time, it seems to co-operate. Yes, the 0.067 is pretty high, and usually I don't go up that much, but as Chuck mentioned, sometimes, you need to put in a larger Z. It just seems to match.
Now for the next twist.... My measurement gear must be conspiring against me.
I loaded the Woofer ZMA and the Tweeter ZMA to take a shot at the XO.... and they don't look like phase lines. Both Tweeter and Woofer have been measured in Box with DATS.
Anyways, I did try out an XO, for an XO it sort of looks ok, i guess? Please let me know options, opinions, and suggestions.
Close up showing the XO, summed response, phase and power response:
Looks pretty good to me. What I think you have looks like an LR2. Typically, the phase will wrap one time less than an LR4 due to less phase rotation in the network, and you have slopes that approximate 12dB/octave acoustically. The thing that makes me wonder is that the tweeter polarity is normal instead of reversed, but you do have a rather large Z offset.
With respect to the phase lines some of that can get cleaned up in the Blender by setting the tail slopes. It does not appear that is an issue, but if you post the Tweeter or Mid FRDs I'll run then through the blender if you want.
Huh, I just notice the double impedance peak, if this is ported, with the near field of the woofer and box dims I could blend the woofer response if you want.
Thanks for helping out. I will take the measurements tonight and upload them. I'll take the following: - Woofer far field - Tweeter far field - Woofer near field - Port near field
I will also add in the box sim, but due to the odd shape, the box sim is only approximate....
Ani, we can use your existing far field measurements. I don't need the box sim but would need the front baffle dimensions to help match the woofer's near field.
Also I would not use the port measurement as the woofer's near field should give enough response to get the tweeter to woofer match correct (imo).
ok, got the XO in alligator clips and listening to it.
The upper mids and treble seemed a bit hot and complex passages got muddles. Switched out the tweeter resister from 1 ohm to 1.5 oh, and everything fell in place.
But I just have one speaker playing in the middle of the room where I was measuring. Don't have enough XO parts for the other one. Will order parts and try both of them, in middle of the room and on table / bookshelf where they will be used. I suspect, I might have to go down to 1.25 or 1 ohm for the pair and in a close to wall / desk situation.
That is the right file, but I can take another measurement tonight. What am I looking for? Waht does the port dip look like? It is ported and does have a very nice bottom end based on what I heard yesterday...
You are looking for a dip at your port/ box tuning frequency. Make sure you are using an un-gated response and you are with in a 1/4 inch of the dust cap
Ani, those are some cool looking cabinets. Look forward to seeing the finished product. How do you plan to finish the rough sides of these upper cabinets?
John, for a shape like this, when you enter the baffle data into the diffraction tab on the blender, do you simply average the width from top to bottom? This is what I did on my coax project, but not sure if this was the right way to do it.
John, for a shape like this, when you enter the baffle data into the diffraction tab on the blender, do you simply average the width from top to bottom? This is what I did on my coax project, but not sure if this was the right way to do it.
Bill
I use the cross sectional width at the middle of the woofer or mid. While it's not perfect it still helps to improve the match with the far field.
If I want a baffle response for a weird shape I'll go over to Edge draw the baffle and export the frd, then import it to the Blender DIFF_FRD_Data tab
I took the near field measurement again, raw response, no dip... and the port near field measurement also doen't make sens - the port should have a more extended low end, but seems to follow the woofer.
This is far field with the Crossover in place, gated at 200Hz. Broad 5-6 db dip at 6k - 9k.
This is ungated, room eats up everything under 100hz
The ported and port stuffed looks to be very similar. I checked the port, it is not blocked and I have about 3 inches to the back of the tweeter and it is a 2 inch ID port. I have the walls lined with mattress topped and very lightly stuffed with bonded dacron. Did not use ultra touch denim this time!
Might check the box impedance to see where the tuning is.
We we should expect the port and woofer near field slopes to match and match the sealed roll off. The port is out of phase with the woofer which creates a steeper roll off.
Comments
And not to send you back to the drawing board, but .067 seems way too high
I loaded the Woofer ZMA and the Tweeter ZMA to take a shot at the XO.... and they don't look like phase lines. Both Tweeter and Woofer have been measured in Box with DATS.
Anyways, I did try out an XO, for an XO it sort of looks ok, i guess? Please let me know options, opinions, and suggestions.
Close up showing the XO, summed response, phase and power response:
The next one shows the Reverse Null...
The Woofer XO:
The Tweeter XO:
Please let me know if any other measurements, etc needs to be taken.
InDIYana Event Website
Wolfy's Photobucket
The XO schematic:
Thanks for helping out. I will take the measurements tonight and upload them. I'll take the following:
- Woofer far field
- Tweeter far field
- Woofer near field
- Port near field
I will also add in the box sim, but due to the odd shape, the box sim is only approximate....
Do you need anything else?
Ani, we can use your existing far field measurements. I don't need the box sim but would need the front baffle dimensions to help match the woofer's near field.
Also I would not use the port measurement as the woofer's near field should give enough response to get the tweeter to woofer match correct (imo).
This is the baffle dimension, it is a 14H x 10W baffle, but an odd shape. Maybe this diagram explains it?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eSHLQeYtAwfLB1L_PIf2p_Nr5v3oavR
The upper mids and treble seemed a bit hot and complex passages got muddles. Switched out the tweeter resister from 1 ohm to 1.5 oh, and everything fell in place.
But I just have one speaker playing in the middle of the room where I was measuring. Don't have enough XO parts for the other one. Will order parts and try both of them, in middle of the room and on table / bookshelf where they will be used. I suspect, I might have to go down to 1.25 or 1 ohm for the pair and in a close to wall / desk situation.
Can you try this link? Else, please IM your email address and I'll forward to you. I am not able to upload any files here.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1eSHLQeYtAwfLB1L_PIf2p_Nr5v3oavRl?usp=sharing
Ani, the link above worked. Here are the blender excel files along with the FRDs.
On thing I noticed was that the woofer near field file looks like a sealed box, there is no port dip. Is that the right file?
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B11MVkQBGPCdUTBDbV9LRFByMGs?usp=sharing
That is the right file, but I can take another measurement tonight. What am I looking for? Waht does the port dip look like? It is ported and does have a very nice bottom end based on what I heard yesterday...
Ani, those are some cool looking cabinets. Look forward to seeing the finished product. How do you plan to finish the rough sides of these upper cabinets?
John, for a shape like this, when you enter the baffle data into the diffraction tab on the blender, do you simply average the width from top to bottom? This is what I did on my coax project, but not sure if this was the right way to do it.
Bill
I use the cross sectional width at the middle of the woofer or mid. While it's not perfect it still helps to improve the match with the far field.
If I want a baffle response for a weird shape I'll go over to Edge draw the baffle and export the frd, then import it to the Blender DIFF_FRD_Data tab
If I manage to finish them in two weeks, then they are getting shipped out. Else, they will go on DIY tour...
All measurements are ungated... This woofer is bot suppoed to have this response sealed....
This is ungated, room eats up everything under 100hz
The ported and port stuffed looks to be very similar. I checked the port, it is not blocked and I have about 3 inches to the back of the tweeter and it is a 2 inch ID port. I have the walls lined with mattress topped and very lightly stuffed with bonded dacron. Did not use ultra touch denim this time!
We we should expect the port and woofer near field slopes to match and match the sealed roll off. The port is out of phase with the woofer which creates a steeper roll off.
I have the in box ZMA for the woofer, but not sure where I can open it to see the port tuning.