InDIYana 2018 pics

konfyoused

Here are the pics I took from InDIYana this year. 

JasonP

Thanks for posting this! I see you even managed to nab a couple of the designs I missed!

Gowa

Great looking builds. Thanks for the pics.

4thtry

Nice set of pictures.  Many look similar to my pics, we must have been standing in almost the same position for many of the shots.  I sent my disc to Bryan, so you will probably see my set on the MAC site in a few days.

Wolf

Did you also send one to me, Bill?

4thtry

Wolf said:

Did you also send one to me, Bill?

Yup.  Sent you a PM with the USPS tracking number.  Expected Delivery date is listed as May 7 by 8PM

konfyoused

4thtry said:

Nice set of pictures.  Many look similar to my pics, we must have been standing in almost the same position for many of the shots.  I sent my disc to Bryan, so you will probably see my set on the MAC site in a few days.

I wish I had gotten some good closeups of what was there instead of standing back from it a bit like I did. Oh well, I'll just have to remember to do that next year. Hopefully next year I'll bring more than one build to the event too! :-D

D1PP1N

If the growth continues like it has the past few years no one will be able to bring more than one build lol!

Wolf

And the venue might have to change if it gets bigger.

jholtz

Hey guys! It looks like it was a great event and a lot of fun. There were a lot of projects with SB CAC drivers but I've not found any feedback from anyone there yet. Is the CAC the new Rev/Satori killer?

Jim

Wolf

They sound good, what can I say? Rev killer? I doubt it. They're better than the standard poly/paper range from SB for certain. Well damped, higher freq breakup, and articulation and detail are good.

jholtz

Wolf said:

They sound good, what can I say? Rev killer? I doubt it. They're better than the standard poly/paper range from SB for certain. Well damped, higher freq breakup, and articulation and detail are good.

Thanks Wolf. That is what I was wondering about.

Jim

JasonP

My thoughts: I'm sure the Rev/Satori hold together better at higher SPL. But neither of those have the smooth clean midrange of the NAC/CAC, IMO. So, trade-offs, like usual.

jholtz

JasonP said:

My thoughts: I'm sure the Rev/Satori hold together better at higher SPL. But neither of those have the smooth clean midrange of the NAC/CAC, IMO. So, trade-offs, like usual.

Hi Jason,

Thanks for the feedback. The midrange is what I'm most interested in. Any thoughts on how it compares to the SB driver you used in the build you had at Dakota last year?

Thanks!

Jim

D1PP1N

I bought a pair of vifa ne 149, sb15 paper and sb15 cac ceramic. All 5" drivers but Im leaning toward using the ceramic for 3way usage. 

DanP

Wolf said: nu

They sound good, what can I say? Rev killer? I doubt it. They're better than the standard poly/paper range from SB for certain. Well damped, higher freq breakup, and articulation and detail are good.

This is where I landed with them too.  A great driver and well worth the money.  I'd kick in a little more for a Satori though if it was in the budget.

Dan 

PWRRYD

I would like to comment on these drivers, but please bare in mind that since I used them in my own design I am obviously biased towards them.  That said I have spent countless hours listening to these woofers and comparing them to some of my other projects, mainly my Gormacho project which uses the Morel CAM558 (MDM55 with a round flange) dome midrange in a 3 way with Usher 8945A and NeoCD1.0 ribbons.  I honestly love that 2-1/8" Morel dome midrange but these are actually cleaner and more accurate (lower distortion and smoother FR).  These woofers reveal some detail that I've previously missed on some demo tracks.  And I've listened to them quite loud and never felt the need to turn down the volume.  How do they compare to Revelators?  I can't answer that as I have never owned and listened to Revelators for extended periods of time.  I have heard them in designs at DIY events, but not back to back with these woofers.

In this project I paired the CAC's with HiVi RT1.3WE planar tweeters.  I crossed them right at 3k using 4th order L-R acoustic slopes.  I used good quality crossover components but nothing over the top.  Just Audyn Q4 caps and Erse 18 gauge iron core and air core for the woofer and diy hand wound 20 gauge air core for the tweeter.  The on axis FR was pretty flat:  +/- 1.5 dB from 400 Hz to 11 kHz.  Off axis measurements showed no more than 1 dB peaking through the crossover zone.

Jim, I'm not surprised that there weren't a bunch of comments praising this driver or my project.  IMHO sometimes it seems like it's projects that have a lot of top end sizzle or projects that use a little 4 inch woofer that produces bass like a big 10" that catches most peoples' attention at DIY events.  There is just too much other stuff going on, and with only 10 minutes of music, to really hear any project really well.

isaeagle4031

I was fairly busy to give too many speakers a good sit down listen. Craig's I made a point of. The midrange is where these really shined to me. Clear, clean, finely detailed, and not ratifying. They had a very nice warmth and really I think the best I've heard the rt1.3 sound imo. 

Wolf

In terms of the RT1.3, I came off in the middle. I felt the lowend of the treble was fine, but they sounded kinda dead on top. Being that I have used the 1.3 in my Vijon project and have had them for a long time, I have had extended time with it. Craig did say he has a lot of glass in his living room, and this definitely can change the implementation. Both John and I tilted up the topend when we used it.

ScottS

We had some extra time with these in BK and JP's room Saturday night.  I thought the balance was good there.  What came to mind to me was that I would really like to hear Craig's speakers vs. the similarly sized, but more expensive Carrera's (Scan 15W + Hiquphon tweeter).  I'm sure there would be some subtle differences, but I'm not sure it would all go in favor of the Carrrera...

jholtz

Wow! Thanks for the great feedback! That's what a DIY event is supposed to produce.
Craig; I agree with you completely. A DIY event with speakers playing in rooms that don't come close to resembling home listening room can only allow a glimpse of the true sound quality, good or bad, but you can usually pick out characteristics that really stand out and based on everyone's feedback it sounds like the CAC's strong suite is smoothness, clarity and detail in the midrange which is what I'm most interested in.

I'm looking forward to hearing Craig's and other CAC designs in Iowa this fall!

Thanks again guys! I wish I could have been there. Great event Wolf!

Jim

JasonP

jholtz said:

JasonP said:

My thoughts: I'm sure the Rev/Satori hold together better at higher SPL. But neither of those have the smooth clean midrange of the NAC/CAC, IMO. So, trade-offs, like usual.

Hi Jason,

Thanks for the feedback. The midrange is what I'm most interested in. Any thoughts on how it compares to the SB driver you used in the build you had at Dakota last year?

Thanks!

Jim

So that is the Elephant in the room IMO, regarding the new CAC line. From what I hear the CAC is a process on the aluminum cone that generates a ceramic layer. This changes the visual appearance and some qualities of the cone acoustically, but who knows. Looking at the SB17NAC 8 ohm that I used in the Polaris (at DDIY17, Menicus 17) the CAC version looks like an overlay on the response graph. I'm not trying to call out SB or anything, because I think the visual improvement alone has value for some, but I'd love to hear what the engineers think they achieved in this process.

In short, I'd love to hear a direct side-by-side comparison of the drivers. I wonder if I could drop in the CAC for the NAC in my speaker... hmmmm.

jholtz

JasonP said:

So that is the Elephant in the room IMO, regarding the new CAC line. From what I hear the CAC is a process on the aluminum cone that generates a ceramic layer. This changes the visual appearance and some qualities of the cone acoustically, but who knows. Looking at the SB17NAC 8 ohm that I used in the Polaris (at DDIY17, Menicus 17) the CAC version looks like an overlay on the response graph. I'm not trying to call out SB or anything, because I think the visual improvement alone has value for some, but I'd love to hear what the engineers think they achieved in this process.

In short, I'd love to hear a direct side-by-side comparison of the drivers. I wonder if I could drop in the CAC for the NAC in my speaker... hmmmm.

Now , that would be interesting! Two entries with only a woofer change.

Jim

PWRRYD

 That would be very interesting Jason.  I would honestly hope they were too close to call...  then I could buy a pair of the NAC's for a real savings

D1PP1N

I am building bagby's piccolos using the 5 inchers i could try it with both drivers and the same crossovers and see how she measures? 

Speaking of completed speaker measurements what is standard practice measuring and quantifying your results. What mic position/distance, should i try the listening position. one or 2 speaksrs playing etc?

jhollander

I try to get close to my original measurement distance for one speaker to check my sim.  I'm usually close to 30 inches for a stand mount.  I also take off axis from there.

I use to set up a mic near my listening position to figure out what might be sounding off.

Bryan@MAC

Bill's pics are posted on the MAC archive - http://www.midwestaudioclub.com/event-archive/indiyana-2018/

Many thanks Bill!!  I'll have the house track and some videos added over the next week or so, but for now check out Bill's awesome pics!!