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New MTM tower project

PWRRYDPWRRYD
edited November 2018 in Announcements
Hi guys.  I have started a new project that I am really excited about and I wanted to share my progress with you guys.  These are tall and narrow MTM towers that use Peerless 830-991 glass fiber woofers and Wavecor TW022WA05-01 tweeters.  Jason P. modeled the the MLTL for me and the bass response looks great for a pair of 5.25" woofers (mucho thanks Jason).  I am hoping the smaller diameter woofers (5.25"), smaller diameter dome tweeters (22mm), as narrow as I could baffle width (6.75"), and 0.75" round overs will produce some nice dispersion and imagining.  Enough blathering....  here are some progress pictures:











JasonPD1PP1NGowaS7910jhollanderdynamobrek81Turn2R-Carpenterkennyk
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Comments

  • Tom_STom_S
    Man, you're a speaker building machine! Looking good. You'll have these completely finished by Sunday night, right?  ;)
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    Hoping to start taking measurements next week  =)
  • rjj45rjj45
    sweet! I've been testing my first MLTL alignments and digging that a lot. Solid, low, tight bass.

    But Chahly - Stahkist don't want speakers that look good, Stahkist wants speakers that sound good!
  • dynamodynamo
    edited November 2018
    Lookin good. I love your approach to flushing those otherwise PITA flat edged baskets. Working smarter not harder. oh, and I am stealing that technique!
    ThumperTom
  • S7910S7910
    Those are looking good!
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    I had a chance to take the impedance and frequency response measurements after work tonight.  Very excited about how smooth and clean both drivers measure.  AND they both sound very clean to my ears during the sine sweep measurements.  

    On a side note, the real world impedance measurements are dead nuts in agreement with the sims JP did with Martin Kings software.
    S7910Gowa
  • GowaGowa
    I'm a fan of that tweeter.
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    I spent a few minutes this morning and I already have a prototype crossover designed.  It's great when things fall into place and parallel notches and such are not required.  8 total parts per speaker.  It's even better when you have all the needed parts on hand... so I could be listening to these guys in a couple days  B)
    Gowakennyk
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    I have three levels of crossovers:  1) completely prototype using a rat's nest of alligator clips to try out the simulated design and get some on and off axis measurements,  2) a more or less soldered up prototype crossover where there may be only one or two components I will switch in and out during voicing,  and  3) the final completely soldered up crossover that has all quality components and is going to be mounted inside the speaker.

    I've finished the first level and have just completed building the second level, ready to start voicing.  Here is a picture:



    Need to decide which tweeter padding resistor sounds best and need to replace the Madisound buyout 10 uF with an Audyn.
    Gowajr@mackennykjhollanderJasonPS7910ThumperTom
  • jr@macjr@mac
    Hey, some of those components look familiar ;)
    I have a signature.
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    Yeppers!  The 30's and 18's came in handy.  Mucho thanks.
  • kennykkennyk


    I used the same technique on my first Iron Driver speaker. Very nice looking speaker Craig. 
    ............. could you hum a few bars.
  • tajanestajanes
    looks great !
    nice clean work on the speaker flush & holes, matching up to the sides of the cabs
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    edited December 2018
    Switched things up a bit after listening to these for a while.  The Wavecor tweeter is good but it just isn't the right tweeter for this little project.  I've switched to a pair of Vifa XT25TG ring radiators.  I'm reworking the prototype crossovers tonight and should be taking some measurements and do some voicing this week.
    kennyk
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    I just grabbed an on-axis measurement.  Looks pretty promising.  I still need to do all the off-axis measurements and of course the most important part, the voicing.  Here is what on-axis looks like at this point.  This is at 1 meter, 1/24th octave smoothing, 5.5 msec gate.  The crossover point is 2500 Hz LR4 acoustic.  I have a 20 ohm resistor across the tweeter which drives the transfer function down to -48 dB at the XT25's Fs.



    R-Carpenterjr@macS7910GowaNicholas_23ThumperTomkennyk
  • Nicholas_23Nicholas_23
    PWRRYD said:
    Switched things up a bit after listening to these for a while.  The Wavecor tweeter is good but it just isn't the right tweeter for this little project.  I've switched to a pair of Vifa XT25TG ring radiators.  I'm reworking the prototype crossovers tonight and should be taking some measurements and do some voicing this week.
    Craig , was there anything that stood out, or that you didnt care for when using the wavecor tweeter?
  • WolfWolf

    From my experience with the Wavecors in my Fenrir...

    I found the 06 version to be *very smooth*. It's not that this is a bad trait, but it also requires the midbass to have a smoother sound or there is a disjointed effect between the drivers. The 06 worked well with the paper Rival woofer. I'm thinking the Wavecor was too smooth for the glass fiber midbasses, and the XT25 was a bit more lively and matched better.

    Some say that the materials don't matter if the FR matches, but I think they still have a hand in the sound qualities.

    Gowajholtzrjj45

    InDIYana Event Website

  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    edited December 2018
    How smooth the Wavecor measured on baffle FWIW:


  • MartyHMartyH
    A guy could live with that response!
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    edited December 2018
    The Wavecor response I just posted?
  • jhollanderjhollander
    Yeah, more lumpy that I would have thought compared to the XT above
     John H, btw forum has decided I don't get emails
  • MartyHMartyH
    Three or four pieces of crossover and crossed around 2.3k and I have to believe it'll be just fine.  (Yes, the Wavecor.)
  • WolfWolf

    Let me clarify my statement. I did not mean smooth as in flat response, but in character. Nothing really sticks out.

    In fact, here's the measurement of the TW022WA06 in my Fenrir baffles above. It just does not sound as analytical or resolving to me as some others. Granted, some people like the smooth, benign sound, and that is not to say that these are bad tweeters by any stretch. They just aren't one of my favorites.


    Gowa

    InDIYana Event Website

  • GowaGowa
    That's a pretty good description, Ben. 
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    edited December 2018
    I took a full barrage of off axis measurements from 15 to 90 degrees expecting some significant LR4 MTM peaking above Fc.  There was about 1 dB around 4K but not as much as I expected.



  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    So I dropped the first cap in the 3rd order tweeter filter from 8.2 uF to 7.5 uF.  Smooth as silk!
    GowakennykMartyHS7910
  • jr@macjr@mac
    These mids are on sale at PE.
    I have a signature.
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    Yes,

    4 mids + 2 tweeter + all xo parts < $250
    jr@macGowa
  • Ed_PerkinsEd_Perkins
    Great job Craig.  I commend you on realizing that the Wavecor just wouldn't work for you and switch to the XT25.  It's tough to recognize when the best course of action is to throw out the current design and start with a new one. 
    kennyk
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    Absolutely Ed.  I wanted to use those Wavecors soooo bad!  And I still think they are good tweeters.  They just didn't work in this project.  Luckily the XT dropped right in the cutout (sans filing some notched for the terminals).
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