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Capacitors, choices

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  • edited March 2020
    PWRRYD said:

    I always build both speakers and prototype crossovers and voice in stereo.  Never tried mono.  I think JR also voices in mono.  What are the benefits?

    John, when you say you built a speaker with all NPE I assume you mean even the small caps in the tweeter's filter.  Just for the fun of it?  FWIW I've never used a NPE for a cap under 33 uF.  I've never used a poly over 47 uF.  That's the parsimony point for me personally.
    With one speaker it's easier for me to focus on what is coming out of the speaker vs. reflected or supported by the other speaker.  It takes some getting use to as you can hear some content of the other channel.

    Yes, I built an all RS 3-way with all NPE including the small caps on the tweeter, then switched to all poly, including a poly bypass cap on the woofer shunt/ 2nd leg. It was very different.

    I've not done a bypass cap test alone.  That might be best on a woofer that had some content at 1K.
     John H, btw forum has decided I don't get emails
  • For my last project, I built this...

    I bought a bunch of those spring connectors from China.


  • I just switched to wago .... so hopefully no more birds nest crossovers.... but still need to make connector leads from speaker wires... got a spare roll of 18 gauge.... lots of stripping.....
  • jr@mac said:
    Ditch the alligator clip leads. 
    Ended up making my own jumpers with heavier wire and I soldered the alligators on.
    Edit: I see my friends here have also done the same. 

    But Chahly - Stahkist don't want speakers that look good, Stahkist wants speakers that sound good!
  • ani_101 said:
    I just switched to wago .... so hopefully no more birds nest crossovers..
    Heck Ani, you had some all time great bird nest crossovers at some of our get-togethers!  I'll miss them  :)  
    ani_101
  • What is the process when voicing in mono?  Are both speakers playing at the same time?  A quick switch from one to the other???     
  • Kornbread said:
    What is the process when voicing in mono?  Are both speakers playing at the same time?  A quick switch from one to the other???     
    only one speaker is assembled and measured....
    rjj45
  • I voice in stereo. I find in mono the spectrally flat tweeters will be hot when then changed to stereo.
  • Wolf said:
    I voice in stereo. I find in mono the spectrally flat tweeters will be hot when then changed to stereo.
    Interesting.  I was begining to think I was the only one who voiced in stereo.

    Here's a question (maybe a dumb one) for the guys who voice in mono.  Do you pick a channel and use that or do you somehow combine both left and right into a mono signal.  I haven't seen a mono/stereo button on a piece of stereo equipment in a LONG time and back then it was usually only FM tuners.
  • Mark Miller uses older Beatles recordings, but Beach Boys would also apply. Those were mastered in mono, and only mono and ping-pong stereo versions exist.
  • My preamp has a mono setting. and I usually do a preliminary voicing of a single speaker in  mono while they are in an unfinished state, and do my next voicing in stereo, and finally a last check after everything is soldered.
  • Wolf said:
    I voice in stereo. I find in mono the spectrally flat tweeters will be hot when then changed to stereo.
    Stereo for me too - and now I don't feel like I was just hearing things or screwing something up. 
  • edited March 2020
    Yes, I always pick the right channel and a set group of demo discs.  If I get confused I may measure while listening, sweep, or plug in previous speaker. Oh and yes then a listen in stereo to see if I missed anything.
     John H, btw forum has decided I don't get emails
  • Y adapter to combine L&R from CD player to mixer(preamp) to amplifier.
  • 6thplanet said:
    Y adapter to combine L&R from CD player to mixer(preamp) to amplifier.

     Then are you listening to both speakers at the same time to determine which sounds better or continually switching between l or r to determine which sounds better? 
  • Voicing one speaker in mono is hard enough. If you sort of ignore the very low notes and concentrate on the mids, high and the tweet/mid blend it's doable. I look at the bass only when I have blend between the tweet/mid/woods good as the bass sounds thin with only one speaker playing and you might get tempted to pad down the mids and highs. Voicing is done in mono the same way I measure in mono and most I voice and measure, so the same setup stays, in the middle of the room vertically and horizontally.

    Stereo is done usually with the speakers where I would like to place them, so the bass response 8s adequate but not too boomy, which is why way out in room my speakers are at a disadvantage as back is usually 3-4 db and voiced to be around 12-24 from the walls.

    This seems to work for me, but then I take over a year to complete a design and travel in the company of birds and their dwellings...
  • I've just been twisting leads together, but that's mostly between not having enough clips and being a poor solderer along with a slow gun. 
    I'm assuming most folks don't do this because of the chances of accidentally damaging XO parts/leads, or are there other reasons not to twist leads for quick testing?
  • Kornbread said:
    6thplanet said:
    Y adapter to combine L&R from CD player to mixer(preamp) to amplifier.

     Then are you listening to both speakers at the same time to determine which sounds better or continually switching between l or r to determine which sounds better? 
    Combined stereo signals to mono.
  • ani_101 said:
    (snip) and travel in the company of birds and their dwellings...
    Huh?
     John H, btw forum has decided I don't get emails
  • ani_101 said:
    (snip) and travel in the company of birds and their dwellings...
    Huh?

    Reference to the birds' nest XO....
    brek81rjj45
  • Additionally, does a Cap’s position in a filter (be it in series directly to the speaker vs. as a bypass to ground lead to more impact to sound quality? or are both of equal importance? i.e. C1 vs C4, and/or C2 vs C3 


  • Both can be considered "in the signal path", people tend to put more importance into the signal quality going to the tweeter than the woofer, and since C1 will be of much lower capacitance than C4, a higher end part is more affordable here.


    tajanes
    I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening.
  • Yes- it's a misconception by many that "in the signal path" means in series with said driver. When in fact, it means "in the xover".

    Several swore up and down after my cap test back in 2010 that the NPE vs film across the woofer was fairly audible to the point they no longer used NPEs there.

    I find that when a part is operating "in the driver's bandwidth of frequencies, including rolloff" that the parts should be 'better' than if they are used "outside of the driver's bandwidth of frequencies", say for breakup on woofers or Fs comp on tweeters. This is because those frequencies are already attenuated outside and this vs that makes less difference. In the driver bandwidth, is a lot more output, and can make more of a difference.
    ani_101tajanes
  • I’m down to the British vs. the French for a 2.0uF capacitor

    ClarityCap CSAs vs. Solen Silvers   ???  While I'm anticipating 'order one of each and listen'... always curious as to what you guys may have experienced / suggestions.  THX 

  • For tweeters? CSA.
    Across woofer? Solen Silvers
  • edited March 2020
    Ben,
    For the mid in a 3way > a coax (beyma 5in)... I'm leaning towards the CSA's from what I've read, but haven't had chance to listen.  I tend to cross high(er) than normal, and put a premium on a mid's importance to the speaker. (using active btwn woofer and the coax, biamp)
  • CSA for HP, Solen for LP
    ani_101
  • Solen Fast Caps ="yuck pitui" I think that is a standard audiofile term right?  Heard it describe a tweeter a few times.
    jr@macWolf
     John H, btw forum has decided I don't get emails
  • Hmm I do both actually, mono and stereo. Mono initially, measurements etc. When I am satisfied with the crossover, I build both crossovers. The final voicing is really adjusting the tweeter level. Out of curiosity, I have gone back and adjusted/changed component values but end up right where I was in mono. When designing the kits, I leave room for tweeter level adjustment for the end user. 
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