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Get familiar with the reaction system: Introducing the Reaction System

A "Just for the fun of it" project

PWRRYDPWRRYD
in DIY
For no other reason than I've had the buyout woofers sitting around doing nothing for years, the tweeters were only $12 each on sale, and I've got more sheets of MDF and crossover parts than I know what to do with.  I don't expect these to be super revealing or whatever HIFI term might apply, but they should be quite fun!

The Peerless buyout woofers (835004) were originally $10 each and are a simple surface mount installation.  The tweeters (DA25BG08-06) have a standard 4.09" diameter faceplate so they will be flush mounted.  No fancy hardwood baffles on these.  Probably just some black Duratex over MDF.  They won't go super low but they will go super loud - LOL


Drivers just sitting on the baffle board for a photo op.
kennykjr@macThumperTom6thplanetjhollanderSilver1omoBryan@MACD1PP1NS7910dynamoand 1 other.
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Comments

  • 6thplanet6thplanet
    Post them on Craigslist "Free speakers for whoever can explain the difference between a centrifugal and roots blower"
    PWRRYD
  • rjj45rjj45
    2.5 way?
    But Chahly - Stahkist don't want speakers that look good, Stahkist wants speakers that sound good!
  • jr@macjr@mac
    Back to our roots, love it!
    PWRRYD
    I have a signature.
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    Yeah most likely.  I can't decide that though until after raw in-box measurements and a bunch of xo sims of them as straight 2 ways and 2.5 ways.
    rjj45
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    edited September 2019
    jr@mac said:
    Back to our roots, love it!
    I know, right?  No worries about if there are any copper rings in the woofers' motors.  Lobing?  Most likely  B)
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    Remember those cool Bravox blue and silver cone drivers?  What about those strange frame Klipsch 6.5" drivers?  The Max Fidelity paper cone 5.25"?  All those Peerless drivers that Ron E used in so many nice projects?  Man... those were some fun and exciting times on PETT.
    rjj45S7910JasonP
  • jr@macjr@mac
    Yeah, buyouts have been... Not exciting for a long time now.
    rjj45
    I have a signature.
  • jhollanderjhollander
    I'd really like to do another buyout build with some TV drivers.  To much life commitments or I'd hit up PE to sponsor something.  I thought the NS6's started life as a buyout
    rjj45
     John H, btw forum has decided I don't get emails
  • Ron_ERon_E
    PWRRYD said:
    Remember those cool Bravox blue and silver cone drivers?  What about those strange frame Klipsch 6.5" drivers?  The Max Fidelity paper cone 5.25"?  All those Peerless drivers that Ron E used in so many nice projects?  Man... those were some fun and exciting times on PETT.
    I picked up another 10 of those woofers and hope to have another project to bring to DIY Iowa. I recently finished a pair and shipped them off to a friend in California.



    Ron
    rjj45Turn2S7910PWRRYDJasonPNicholas_23
  • kennykkennyk
    I have enough of the bravox blue cones to make a complete surround system ( sans sub ).
    ............. could you hum a few bars.
  • rjj45rjj45
    @Ron_E

    Very pretty!
    But Chahly - Stahkist don't want speakers that look good, Stahkist wants speakers that sound good!
  • dcibeldcibel
    PWRRYD said:
    Remember those cool Bravox blue and silver cone drivers?  What about those strange frame Klipsch 6.5" drivers?  The Max Fidelity paper cone 5.25"?  All those Peerless drivers that Ron E used in so many nice projects?  Man... those were some fun and exciting times on PETT.
    Bravox blue (aka Dahlquist special)? Don't know what you're talking about... :p


    And that's not all, I think 16 were ordered, about 50% of them had issues with voice coils being off centred by a mile as the cones were squished and were stuck off centre. PE sent some more as freebies, again about 50% failure of those. Luckily we were able to get them to usable state by stuffing some batting behind the cone to push it forward and left like that for a week or two.

    They were the okayest speakers, the Peerless buyouts in the OP are a better speaker IMO.
    PWRRYDkennykJasonP
    I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening.
  • KornbreadKornbread
    On the subject of lobing; is there some kind of easy-peasy calculator for this?  
  • Ed_PerkinsEd_Perkins
    I have an Excel based graphical spreadsheet that John K created long ago.  All you do is enter the driver's effective radius in inches and it produces three different graphical plots of the beaming.  I like it a lot,  Here's a dropbox link in case anyone is interested.  LINK
  • jholtzjholtz
    Thanks Ed. I'd not seen that before.

    Jim
  • Ed_PerkinsEd_Perkins

    I re-read Kornbread's post and realized he was asking about lobing issues, not beaming issues.  In that case I know of two other Excel based spreadsheets produced by the FRD Consortium back in the early 2000's:  Asymmetrical Response Pattern Estimator (ARPE) and ARPE Lite.   Here's an abbreviated description of the programs:

    "The Asymmetrical Response Pattern Estimator is a design estimation tool to predict On and Off-Axis Response and Polar Radiation Patterns, in multiple driver systems, from Driver Size/Shape, Inter Driver Spacing/Tilt and Crossover Influences.  It is used to see complex driver interactions in Horizontal and Vertical Polar Patterns and in a conical projection, Off-Axis Frequency Response.

      ARPE Lite is a slightly simpler version of Asymmetrical Response Pattern Estimator. ARPE Lite produces identical results but is missing buttons to input FRD files, control/display phase, save chart images and is limited to three driver simulations only."

    I wouldn't categorize these as "easy-peasy" to use, but Patrick Bateman over at diyaudio created a thread  on how to use ARPE. LINK.  I would start with ARPE Lite at first.

     I could only find these on the wayback machine, so I put both of them in Dropbox:

    ARPE:  LINK

    ARPE Lite: LINK

    And the wayback link to the ARPE page with full description:  LINK

     You can download the programs directly from the wayback page if you want.  I use Excel 2010 and it complains about about cell labels in formulas not being supported, but says the programs will still work as Excel will use cell references instead.  FWIW.


    rjj45
  • dcibeldcibel
    I don't know what you're trying to calculate with respect to lobing. It's simply a result of the crossover frequency and phase alignment of the drivers due to their location on the baffle and the frequency response.

    You can also try the following in PCD. No need to load any driver files, just enter the "piston diameter", the baffle locations, and load a textbook filter for the woofer and tweeter. Turn on driver phase on the system response, and then move the mic around with the verical and horizontal panning buttons.

    You should see that as you move the mic around, the phase of each driver changes at different rates, this is due to the fact that each driver has a different distance to the mic. When the drivers are in phase, the response sums flat, as the phase drifts apart, the response will dip as well.
    I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening.
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD


    I need to build some bases/plinth to get the tweeter height up to ear level.  Right now I have the woofers wired series/parallel.  I'll take some measurements to start playing around with.
    jr@macD1PP1Nrjj45ThumperTomR-Carpenter4thtry6thplanetS7910Nicholas_23hifisideand 1 other.
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    edited September 2019
    That was a lot of wiring and crimping.  I can't imagine building a pair of floor to ceiling line arrays  :#
  • ani_101ani_101
    Oooooo something about a lot of drivers, even it most of them are not hooked up....
    rjj45
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    Some of you heard my "Industrials" project the last time we were at the Harris Center in Grinnell.  Those MTM's used these Peerless buyout woofers.  I think they are a very smooth, nice sounding paper 6.5" woofer.  I wish they could have deeper bass extension, but oh well, that's what subs are for.  

    I hope to have these ready to demo in Iowa in a few weeks (naked MDF of course).
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    I finished taking all the measurements last night.  The sensitivity match between all those woofers and the tweeter is gonna be close, maybe too close.  Probably have to run the tweeter WOT  :#
    e6zion
  • jhollanderjhollander
    Maybe put a few air cores in series on the woofer? 2.5?
     John H, btw forum has decided I don't get emails
  • Turn2Turn2
    edited October 2019
    PWRRYD said:
    I finished taking all the measurements last night.  The sensitivity match between all those woofers and the tweeter is gonna be close, maybe too close.  Probably have to run the tweeter WOT  :#
    Probably too late for Iowa, but wouldn't a 2.1 MTMWW arrangement help solve that to a degree? Hey, who doesn't enjoy cutting piles of complex baffles? :)
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    Not bad like I initially guestimated.  After blending near and far fields and loading into WinPCD I whipped up a very promising crossover design over the lunch hour today.  The tweeters will actually need 1 or 2 ohms of padding in front of their simple 2nd order filter.  The woofers' filter is just as simple with a 2nd order damped circuit.  So only 6 parts per side (2 caps, 2 coils, and 2 resistors).  Best of all I have all those parts in my stock so I can start building prototype crossovers in the morning.
    rjj45S7910
  • Tom_STom_S
    Looking good Craig! Those combined with your Lab sub sure would get you to Rock concert levels!
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    Thanks Tom.  Looking forward to chatting with you in Iowa.
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    These sound really good!  Kick drum and snare sound amazing!



    Oh yeah... and they can get concert level loud!!!!!!
    Nicholas_23JasonPTurn2rjj45S79106thplanet
  • Tom_STom_S
    Those are beasts! That's a lot of sound for so little money. Just don't hurt your back hauling them out to the car for the ride to Ankeny. 
  • PWRRYDPWRRYD
    They may not fit in my Altima, so I may have to drive my wife's Town and Country.
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