what would be some of the preferred brand for one part as well as two part paints? as well as fillers and primers? maybe I'll ask this in a new thread. I would like to have a reference list going for different paint types/finishes, rattle can vs HPLV
Dark and high gloss will show the most flaws. I'd love to see you try some General Finishes milk paint.
I'll look for some lighter color options then. That is probably why painters use a cheap, dark colored rattle can type paint as a guide coat to find flaws.
I think the General Finishes milk paint is a water based formulation of some type? Would this be correct?. I'm looking to go with a high gloss oil based enamel. Enamel is super hard and I can bang the speakers around quite a bit during transport without seeing any damage. Only problem is that it takes forever to dry, giving the flies and bugs plenty of time to ruin the finish.
I think your color choices are solid, but John is correct in that glossy and dark colors ultimately mean more work. By the way the center flutes really add something to the visuals, well done.
Thanks, Nick. I borrowed the flute idea from Dan N's Scimitar speakers.
Rustoleum makes a gloss Hunter Green high gloss enamel, which I forgot to list. But it is a very boring type green, not space alien worthy at all (see link with example colors). For a space alien green, I need to find something phosphorescent that almost glows in the dark. Maybe a metallic type phosphorescent green. I'll shop around to see if they have something like this in a rattle can, hopefully high gloss oil based enamel as well.
Can you find a better quality paint than Rust-o-leum?
I've had good and bad luck with this and other vendors, especially in rattle cans. The Rustoleum high gloss oil based enamels, sold in gallons and quart cans, has worked out quite well for me. I thin them out just a little bit with mineral spirits and then spray with a 1.8mm tip. I have to get the paint thinned just right, however, because if I get it too thick, then the nozzle starts to spit and ruins the finish. And if I thin it out too much, then I get runs.
what would be some of the preferred brand for one part as well as two part paints? as well as fillers and primers? maybe I'll ask this in a new thread. I would like to have a reference list going for different paint types/finishes, rattle can vs HPLV
I have no experience with 2 part paints, so you'll have to ask Nick, Brad, or Steve F. about these types of paints. Regarding fillers, I used the new Bondo filler that Brad recommended in his video and thread. It worked out quite well on this project. For primer, I used a one part oil based primer from Rustoleum. See link:
I prefer Krylon/Duplicolor paint to Rustoleum whenever possible. I really like the Duplicolor Filler Primer and Primer Sealer.
For dark tinted clear-coat, I like the VHT headlight tint spray. Two coats of this atop black chalkboard paint is a really nice black combo.
I will check this out to see what is available in my color scheme. The VHT headlight tint spray sounds interesting. Would these paints be available by the quart so that they can be thinned for HVLP spraying?
Don't know if I posted this anywhere or it was a conversation between Don and I, the crs is acting up, anyway, primed and laid down a coat of gloss black lacquer. The premixed stuff you get from places like O'Riellys or Autoshack. Just received an order of .008 chrome metal flake and 25 grams each of black and blue Keda dye. The metal flake goes over the base black then I'll mix some dye, probably some of both colors, so I get a dark translucent candy coat blue. Finish with clear gloss lacquer. Fingers crossed this turns out a dark candy blue and not a big mess.
Anyhow, why can't we make our own colors of paint? Pigments and dyes can be bought fairly cheap and many of them mix with just about anything including lacquer. Any hardware store, even wallyworld carries lacquer. You guys that do this kind of thing all the time; will it work?
Kornbread, I have no experience mixing my own colors. I have had custom colors produced by my local hardware store. I would have to guess at the proper ratios and then pour out just the right amounts to produce very small test samples, then spray a test sheet. I would probably have a lot of rejected mix ups.
Guess the quote function went bye bye w/upgrade.
Just thinking that we can get what is commonly called 'brushing lacquer' just about anywhere while 'lacquer paint' is pretty hard to find, at least around here, and then it is prediluted and rather expensive. Everybody orders stuff on-line so with something like Mixol it might be easier for us peeps out in the sticks to get price, quality, quantity, and variety rolling our own.
The paints I've asked about at local auto-parts suppliers is crazy high $ and from what they are telling me, their line of products have to used from start to finish. $$$
... and, well, screwups are sop for me so yep, going to waste some.
Anyhow, just putting this out there for you, us, to ponder.
I can get the Rustoleum oil based high gloss enamels for $9 per quart. Same for the oil based primer. I now have two coats of oil based primer on the two towers, two donuts, two shoes, and two xovers. This only took about 1 quart, thinned out slightly with mineral spirits. I used up a sheet of #400 and #600 sandpaper between coats. I plan to lightly sand down again with #600 and give all the parts a 3rd coat of primer. So, 1.5 quarts total. Top coats will probably run up to 2 more quarts plus 1 rattle can of the same oil based high gloss enamel (for the high gloss shoes). My total cost should be about $40 for the entire paint job (plus labor).
I have used brushing lacquer in my cheapy HF sprayer with the 1.4mm tip installed and the lacquer thinned out with lacquer thinner. I had to completely disassemble and clean my sprayer several times during a project last year. The finish is really nice, but I would really prefer to stay away from lacquer. Also, lacquer is not as durable as oil based enamel. The same applies to shellac. The finish is nice, but not as durable.
@4thtry said:
I have used brushing lacquer in my cheapy HF sprayer with the 1.4mm tip installed and the lacquer thinned out with lacquer thinner. I had to completely disassemble and clean my sprayer several times during a project last year. The finish is really nice, but I would really prefer to stay away from lacquer. Also, lacquer is not as durable as oil based enamel. The same applies to shellac. The finish is nice, but not as durable.
Avoid brushing lacquer it has additive that slow the dry time to allow you to brush it. After you open the can a few time it oxidizes such that it never dries.
Ace hardware now caries Benjamin Moore and they might be able to get the single stage Duralac lacquer.
... Avoid brushing lacquer it has additive that slow the dry time to allow you to brush it. After you open the can a few time it oxidizes such that it never dries. ...
Odd, never had an issue with it drying quickly but I do thin it with lacquer thinner so it shoots better. Usually dries before too many bugs have a party in it.
Hey Bill
After reading this thread again since l kinda lost track of what everyone is doing I took a little time off from any social media.
Do you use hardener in your enamels?
@hifiside said:
Hey Bill
After reading this thread again since l kinda lost track of what everyone is doing I took a little time off from any social media.
Do you use hardener in your enamels?
No hardener used. I only thin it out just a little bit with mineral spirits. As I mix, I watch how fast the paint flows off my mixing stick so that I can judge the proper thickness. I can tell visually when it is thinned out just right to ensure a good flow through the 1.8mm tip. I have no idea as to how I would add a hardener to this mix.
Thanks for the tip. I will look into getting a small can of this. If I do this, I think I would have to be very careful to clean my sprayer out immediately with lacquer thinner to remove the hardener. Right now I clean it with mineral spirits, which is probably not strong enough to remove the hardener. Also, when using a catalyst type mix like this, will I want to buy a new respirator? I am not sure if my current respirator filter cans can be used with these type of chemicals.
Also, not sure on this, but once I add the hardener, the paint has a very short 1-2 hour pot life. When done painting, I cannot pour the unused paint back into the unused quart can like I do now. Otherwise, the hardener will "brick" the entire unused paint left in the can. If there is any unused paint left in my sprayer, I cannot re-use it later!!
Yeah Bill, only mix what you can use short of the pot life, never pour left over paint back into the can. Laquer thinner works well for gun cleaning.
My cleaning routine
Wipe out the cup with paper towels
Run a little bit of thinner through the gun
Remove the cup and clean it completely
Reinstall the cup and run a good deal of thinner through
Remove the cup and disassemble the gun and clean thoroughly
Maybe Brad or someone else will have a better routine for you. I also use a pressure can that you can put solvent into and pressurize with your compressor.
I usually use a gerson respirator, for organic vapor, but any decent brand such as 3m will work.
Ugly_woofer’s way sound great. Remember the cheaper the spray gun the more often you should clean it. The passage ways are never smooth. That’s a awesome compressor I hear. Nice purchase!
My routine with the HF gun is disconnect the air, dump the paint, while upside down trigger the gun to get some of the paint out. Wipe out the cup. If you are still using the plastic filter in the gun unscrew the gun and pull out the filter. I use to clean these but now run without them by straining everything.
Like Nick, I'll run some thinner through the cup and gun until it runs clear out the air cap with no air. Remove the cup and wipe clean then disassemble the gun. This means unscrew the air cap and soak in thinner. Unscrew the nozzle and soak. Unscrew the fluid control knob, remove the spring, pull the needle and clean the end. The gun fluid path should be wide open and easily cleaned with a brush q-tip etc. I'll use a metal pick to clean around the needle bushing.
I'll pull the parts out of the thinner bath and clean, check the little air holes and blow off with compressed air. Then reassemble and run thinner through the gun and check the spray pattern. I wipe everything off unscrew the cup and call it done.
Thanks for all the good cleaning routine information. Good stuff.
Regarding air compressors, I am using a DeVilbiss 5 hp, 20 gallon, twin cylinder/oil lubricated unit. It is rated 125psi max, with an output of 8.75scfm @ 40psi and 7.1scfm @ 90psi. It can keep up with me pretty good when spraying a tower speaker. Sometimes I have to pause a few seconds to let the compressor catch up.
Speaking of psi, what psi, at the sprayer tip, do you normally use when painting a speaker with HVLP? I have a pressure gauge attached to my sprayer and I find that 20psi does not atomize the paint very well. 30-40psi is better. And roughly 60psi at the tip gives me very good atomization, but with significantly higher overspray.
Sprayed the 1st coat of Sunrise Red on the donuts (very close to Ferrair red). You can see my reflected silhouette
standing in the open garage door.
Sprayed the first coat of "Sail Blue" on the towers. I placed one of the red donuts on top of the blue tower, but it did not look good. Too much contrast. The colors seem to clash! So, for my 2nd color coat on the towers, I am going to switch over to high gloss "Smoke Gray". If that does not look right, I'll put on yet a 3rd coat of high gloss black. Black seems to go with just about anything, so that is my fallback.
I re-painted the towers with high gloss Smoke Gray oil based enamel (Rustoleum). I think the gray goes better with the red donuts. I also bought a can of hardener catalyst, but did not use it. I need to practice using hardener on samples before trying it out on a real speaker. You can see a little orange peel on the towers, but it is not too bad.
The top of the cabinet was masked off. You can see all the holes for mounting the donuts, banana jacks, and xovers:
I painted the xovers high gloss enamel black. I can place the handles back to back for easy transport:
I also painted the feet high gloss enamel black. They will slip onto the bottom of the towers and tip the speakers back at an approximate 5 degree angle:
Comments
For dark tinted clear-coat, I like the VHT headlight tint spray. Two coats of this atop black chalkboard paint is a really nice black combo.
InDIYana Event Website
Thanks, Dan. How's your Portals project coming along? Haven't seen any updates for a while.
I'll look for some lighter color options then. That is probably why painters use a cheap, dark colored rattle can type paint as a guide coat to find flaws.
I think the General Finishes milk paint is a water based formulation of some type? Would this be correct?. I'm looking to go with a high gloss oil based enamel. Enamel is super hard and I can bang the speakers around quite a bit during transport without seeing any damage. Only problem is that it takes forever to dry, giving the flies and bugs plenty of time to ruin the finish.
Thanks, Nick. I borrowed the flute idea from Dan N's Scimitar speakers.
Rustoleum makes a gloss Hunter Green high gloss enamel, which I forgot to list. But it is a very boring type green, not space alien worthy at all (see link with example colors). For a space alien green, I need to find something phosphorescent that almost glows in the dark. Maybe a metallic type phosphorescent green. I'll shop around to see if they have something like this in a rattle can, hopefully high gloss oil based enamel as well.
https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/stops-rust/protective-enamel/
I've had good and bad luck with this and other vendors, especially in rattle cans. The Rustoleum high gloss oil based enamels, sold in gallons and quart cans, has worked out quite well for me. I thin them out just a little bit with mineral spirits and then spray with a 1.8mm tip. I have to get the paint thinned just right, however, because if I get it too thick, then the nozzle starts to spit and ruins the finish. And if I thin it out too much, then I get runs.
I have no experience with 2 part paints, so you'll have to ask Nick, Brad, or Steve F. about these types of paints. Regarding fillers, I used the new Bondo filler that Brad recommended in his video and thread. It worked out quite well on this project. For primer, I used a one part oil based primer from Rustoleum. See link:
https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/stops-rust/clean-metal-primer
I try to stay away from rattle cans, if I can. I have had many bad experiences with rattle cans. HPLV is the way to go.
I will check this out to see what is available in my color scheme. The VHT headlight tint spray sounds interesting. Would these paints be available by the quart so that they can be thinned for HVLP spraying?
https://www.jfcomponents.com/
Thanks, Brad.
Kornbread, I have no experience mixing my own colors. I have had custom colors produced by my local hardware store. I would have to guess at the proper ratios and then pour out just the right amounts to produce very small test samples, then spray a test sheet. I would probably have a lot of rejected mix ups.
Guess the quote function went bye bye w/upgrade.
Just thinking that we can get what is commonly called 'brushing lacquer' just about anywhere while 'lacquer paint' is pretty hard to find, at least around here, and then it is prediluted and rather expensive. Everybody orders stuff on-line so with something like Mixol it might be easier for us peeps out in the sticks to get price, quality, quantity, and variety rolling our own.
The paints I've asked about at local auto-parts suppliers is crazy high $ and from what they are telling me, their line of products have to used from start to finish. $$$
... and, well, screwups are sop for me so yep, going to waste some.
Anyhow, just putting this out there for you, us, to ponder.
I can get the Rustoleum oil based high gloss enamels for $9 per quart. Same for the oil based primer. I now have two coats of oil based primer on the two towers, two donuts, two shoes, and two xovers. This only took about 1 quart, thinned out slightly with mineral spirits. I used up a sheet of #400 and #600 sandpaper between coats. I plan to lightly sand down again with #600 and give all the parts a 3rd coat of primer. So, 1.5 quarts total. Top coats will probably run up to 2 more quarts plus 1 rattle can of the same oil based high gloss enamel (for the high gloss shoes). My total cost should be about $40 for the entire paint job (plus labor).
I have used brushing lacquer in my cheapy HF sprayer with the 1.4mm tip installed and the lacquer thinned out with lacquer thinner. I had to completely disassemble and clean my sprayer several times during a project last year. The finish is really nice, but I would really prefer to stay away from lacquer. Also, lacquer is not as durable as oil based enamel. The same applies to shellac. The finish is nice, but not as durable.
Avoid brushing lacquer it has additive that slow the dry time to allow you to brush it. After you open the can a few time it oxidizes such that it never dries.
Ace hardware now caries Benjamin Moore and they might be able to get the single stage Duralac lacquer.
Odd, never had an issue with it drying quickly but I do thin it with lacquer thinner so it shoots better. Usually dries before too many bugs have a party in it.
Hey Bill
After reading this thread again since l kinda lost track of what everyone is doing I took a little time off from any social media.
Do you use hardener in your enamels?
https://www.jfcomponents.com/
No hardener used. I only thin it out just a little bit with mineral spirits. As I mix, I watch how fast the paint flows off my mixing stick so that I can judge the proper thickness. I can tell visually when it is thinned out just right to ensure a good flow through the 1.8mm tip. I have no idea as to how I would add a hardener to this mix.
I see Rustoleum makes a hardener for its enamel paints. I'm hoping Brad will tell us the pros/cons of using it.
https://www.rustoleum.com.au/~/media/DigitalEncyclopedia/Documents/RustoleumAU/TDS/English/Hi Chem TDS/Enamel-Hardener.ashx?la=en-AU
It is a catalyst and will make it dry quicker, and make it much harder, hence the name. I would definitely use it.
ugly_woofer has it right. I really don’t see any cons to using hardener-catalyst.
https://www.jfcomponents.com/
Thanks for the tip. I will look into getting a small can of this. If I do this, I think I would have to be very careful to clean my sprayer out immediately with lacquer thinner to remove the hardener. Right now I clean it with mineral spirits, which is probably not strong enough to remove the hardener. Also, when using a catalyst type mix like this, will I want to buy a new respirator? I am not sure if my current respirator filter cans can be used with these type of chemicals.
Also, not sure on this, but once I add the hardener, the paint has a very short 1-2 hour pot life. When done painting, I cannot pour the unused paint back into the unused quart can like I do now. Otherwise, the hardener will "brick" the entire unused paint left in the can. If there is any unused paint left in my sprayer, I cannot re-use it later!!
Yeah Bill, only mix what you can use short of the pot life, never pour left over paint back into the can. Laquer thinner works well for gun cleaning.
My cleaning routine
Wipe out the cup with paper towels
Run a little bit of thinner through the gun
Remove the cup and clean it completely
Reinstall the cup and run a good deal of thinner through
Remove the cup and disassemble the gun and clean thoroughly
Maybe Brad or someone else will have a better routine for you. I also use a pressure can that you can put solvent into and pressurize with your compressor.
I usually use a gerson respirator, for organic vapor, but any decent brand such as 3m will work.
Oh yeah I recently bought an Easrwood rotary scroll air compressor, a bit pricey, but nice and quiet.
Ugly_woofer’s way sound great. Remember the cheaper the spray gun the more often you should clean it. The passage ways are never smooth. That’s a awesome compressor I hear. Nice purchase!
https://www.jfcomponents.com/
My routine with the HF gun is disconnect the air, dump the paint, while upside down trigger the gun to get some of the paint out. Wipe out the cup. If you are still using the plastic filter in the gun unscrew the gun and pull out the filter. I use to clean these but now run without them by straining everything.
Like Nick, I'll run some thinner through the cup and gun until it runs clear out the air cap with no air. Remove the cup and wipe clean then disassemble the gun. This means unscrew the air cap and soak in thinner. Unscrew the nozzle and soak. Unscrew the fluid control knob, remove the spring, pull the needle and clean the end. The gun fluid path should be wide open and easily cleaned with a brush q-tip etc. I'll use a metal pick to clean around the needle bushing.
I'll pull the parts out of the thinner bath and clean, check the little air holes and blow off with compressed air. Then reassemble and run thinner through the gun and check the spray pattern. I wipe everything off unscrew the cup and call it done.
I do need another compressor...
Thanks for all the good cleaning routine information. Good stuff.
Regarding air compressors, I am using a DeVilbiss 5 hp, 20 gallon, twin cylinder/oil lubricated unit. It is rated 125psi max, with an output of 8.75scfm @ 40psi and 7.1scfm @ 90psi. It can keep up with me pretty good when spraying a tower speaker. Sometimes I have to pause a few seconds to let the compressor catch up.
Speaking of psi, what psi, at the sprayer tip, do you normally use when painting a speaker with HVLP? I have a pressure gauge attached to my sprayer and I find that 20psi does not atomize the paint very well. 30-40psi is better. And roughly 60psi at the tip gives me very good atomization, but with significantly higher overspray.
Sprayed the 1st coat of Sunrise Red on the donuts (very close to Ferrair red). You can see my reflected silhouette
standing in the open garage door.
Sprayed the first coat of "Sail Blue" on the towers. I placed one of the red donuts on top of the blue tower, but it did not look good. Too much contrast. The colors seem to clash!
So, for my 2nd color coat on the towers, I am going to switch over to high gloss "Smoke Gray". If that does not look right, I'll put on yet a 3rd coat of high gloss black. Black seems to go with just about anything, so that is my fallback.
A little painting progress:
I re-painted the towers with high gloss Smoke Gray oil based enamel (Rustoleum). I think the gray goes better with the red donuts. I also bought a can of hardener catalyst, but did not use it. I need to practice using hardener on samples before trying it out on a real speaker. You can see a little orange peel on the towers, but it is not too bad.
The top of the cabinet was masked off. You can see all the holes for mounting the donuts, banana jacks, and xovers:
I painted the xovers high gloss enamel black. I can place the handles back to back for easy transport:
I also painted the feet high gloss enamel black. They will slip onto the bottom of the towers and tip the speakers back at an approximate 5 degree angle:
Matchsticks?