Just to make sure you know. Since you have the cab you only need DATS to measure the impedance with the woofer mounted in the box. Of course you'll need the tweeter mounted to fill the hole! I assume you want to do the T/S params to get experience with your new DATS. And be sure to run both the tweeter and woofer leads before chaulking. Yeah, I messed that up once and forgot the tweeter leads.
Ed asked me to pop in on this thread, and explain the guesstimation of Z offsets/Acoustic Center. Always bias the dimensions of the woofer and mid AC off that of the tweeter physical AC. If the tweeter VC or ribbon chip is 10mm behind the baffle, subtract that from the woofer estimate. OR- base all measurements from the baffle surface and use the tweeter estimate as well.
Jeff long said about 25mm is average for the 6-7" and 1" dome tweeter. You can base it off of that, and likely not be too far off. Just scale it a bit.
The other methods I use include where is the voice coil in dome tweeters or diaphragm position in ribbons/AMTs/planars. Usually this can be close to the thickness of the tweeter faceplate for flat-faced domes, to the front-plate for others, as that is the center of the voice-coil operation. The 'chip' or housing of the ribbon to the front of the faceplate is the standard measurement on those.
I have stated 'to the front-plate' on woofers and mids for AC estimation prior, but more often than not, I fudge it forward of there, usually setting it for the spider/cone junction, or even the rear-most physical spot on the cone.
If you want to know how it typically goes when measured, it varies a lot. Morel woofers and Morel domes have zero offset when used together, same for Accuton Cell drivers. I know others have measured some 6.5" woofers to -45mm from reference of baffle surface.
Thanks for the post Ben. I also found an SB Acoustics document that lists their measured acoustic offsets for some of their tweeter/woofer combinations.
I've downloaded WT3 DATS V2, installed, followed directions, and am getting the following.....
1. No output. If I am reading correctly I should hear something and I hear nothing. 2. Figures are incredibly widespread every measurement. 3. Most of the time I don't get a Qes. 4. Tweeter or woofer, I get almost the same results. 5. Test lead calibration always fails
No idea about wt3 but w/datsV² the drivers do make a sound as they sweep the frequency range in order to make the .zma. Test lead calibration shouldn't fail. I'm no computer dude but ya got problems somewhere.
The WT3 certainly had its problems, problems that PE never fully fessed up to (ask JR about that!). Mine was very intermittent and drove me crazy. On the other hand my DATS V2 has worked like a charm, nary a problem.
In lieu of dropping $130 you could go Ani's route or put a WTB DATS V2 post in PETT's Classified section.
I also have a Smith and Larsen WT2 (no relation to the WT3) sitting on the shelf. It's not quite as turn-key as the DATS, but is actually more capable. I believe Ben still uses his in case you need some his help. I could ship it to you to see if it works out for you. If so, it's yours for $25. If not, just ship it back to me.
PS - Did you check the Window's sound mixer with the WT3 plugged in? The volume for the WT3 should be set to max IIRC.
datsV² usually works except for its habit of forcing the computer to reboot in the middle of a measurement. Usually when rolling coils and taking a lot of measurements. Built a limp module you can have but since boy and the parents are all high-risk with this virus, we just don't leave the house unless absolutely necessary, so shipping would have to wait till this krap is over.
Did you check the Window's sound mixer with the WT3 plugged in? The volume for the WT3 should be set to max IIRC.
That, and its microphone in the mixer should be set for 2 channel. Default is single channel. This one took me a little while to figure out when I first got my WT3 many moons ago.
Yes- I still use the S&L WT2. I remember hearing Pete say that he was able to use the software for the WT3 on the WT2. If it's backwards capable, I might be able to help with that too. I'm sure the original software being from 2005 might not as stringently held, but I do have the latest from here: www.woofertester.com
Shoot, that LIMP/ARTA setup looks like it may be worth a shot, the only thing I want sure about was what cables hook up the limp to my CPU? Hopefully this is the last hiccup in finally designing and measuring.....
The limp module is yours if you want it, just don't know how I'd get it shipped any time soon.
Appreciate it bruh. I may just order the parts, or I may just crap shoot a HP/LP for the time being on the Horse Pill, I can just "borrow" one off a dozen other nd28f projects and then LP the woofer somewhere. And I need to finish building out this one so I have time.
Officially done with this WT3. I've fiddled for another hour or so this morning and nothing correct. Found the PDF, changed all settings, tried both USB's, restarted cpu. No dice.
Shoot, that LIMP/ARTA setup looks like it may be worth a shot, the only thing I want sure about was what cables hook up the limp to my CPU? Hopefully this is the last hiccup in finally designing and measuring.....
I'v used LIMP for all my zmas for ever. You can actually build a temp fixture pretty easily, but it will be delicate. You will need in/out to your computer sound card, so typically a 3.5mm male stereo connector on one end and probably 2 male RCA plugs on the other. Either plug the RCAs into RCA jacks or cut them off, but in any case connect about 15 feet of 14-16 gauge zip cord with 2 alligator clips on the end to attach to the speaker under test.
But Chahly - Stahkist don't want speakers that look good, Stahkist wants speakers that sound good!
You may want to consider flush mounting the drivers.
If you need to put one on top and the other under to fit, I’d go the other way around and under-mount the woofs and flush / top mount the tweets
I think I decided to go this way due to the proximity of the tweet and the butchering of the faceplate that would be necessary as well as how compact the baffle is to fit my restrictions.
A matter of compromises unfortunately. I believe your concern is the x-axis for phasing or time alignment, yes? I may be able to pull the tweeter out further and use the beauty panel as the faceplate/waveguide. Same difference?
diffraction of tweeter's wave (per placement as shown) through the 90 degree cut hole
if you can camber the hole a bit towards a mini-waveguide that may attenuate the issue
@joeybutts said:
Officially done with this WT3. I've fiddled for another hour or so this morning and nothing correct. Found the PDF, changed all settings, tried both USB's, restarted cpu. No dice.
Just sticking my nose in. These are the settings I use with WT3/DATS 2 combo;
Make sure the WT3 is chosen hardware in preferences.
Comments
Just to make sure you know. Since you have the cab you only need DATS to measure the impedance with the woofer mounted in the box. Of course you'll need the tweeter mounted to fill the hole! I assume you want to do the T/S params to get experience with your new DATS. And be sure to run both the tweeter and woofer leads before chaulking. Yeah, I messed that up once and forgot the tweeter leads.
Jeff long said about 25mm is average for the 6-7" and 1" dome tweeter. You can base it off of that, and likely not be too far off. Just scale it a bit.
The other methods I use include where is the voice coil in dome tweeters or diaphragm position in ribbons/AMTs/planars. Usually this can be close to the thickness of the tweeter faceplate for flat-faced domes, to the front-plate for others, as that is the center of the voice-coil operation. The 'chip' or housing of the ribbon to the front of the faceplate is the standard measurement on those.
I have stated 'to the front-plate' on woofers and mids for AC estimation prior, but more often than not, I fudge it forward of there, usually setting it for the spider/cone junction, or even the rear-most physical spot on the cone.
If you want to know how it typically goes when measured, it varies a lot. Morel woofers and Morel domes have zero offset when used together, same for Accuton Cell drivers. I know others have measured some 6.5" woofers to -45mm from reference of baffle surface.
InDIYana Event Website
SB Acoustics Time-Alignment.pdf
I've downloaded WT3 DATS V2, installed, followed directions, and am getting the following.....
1. No output. If I am reading correctly I should hear something and I hear nothing.
2. Figures are incredibly widespread every measurement.
3. Most of the time I don't get a Qes.
4. Tweeter or woofer, I get almost the same results.
5. Test lead calibration always fails
Think this thing is toast?
Should I drop the $130 on the new DATSV3 PE offers or somewhere else?
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/64608-self-contained-limp-jig
In lieu of dropping $130 you could go Ani's route or put a WTB DATS V2 post in PETT's Classified section.
I also have a Smith and Larsen WT2 (no relation to the WT3) sitting on the shelf. It's not quite as turn-key as the DATS, but is actually more capable. I believe Ben still uses his in case you need some his help. I could ship it to you to see if it works out for you. If so, it's yours for $25. If not, just ship it back to me.
PS - Did you check the Window's sound mixer with the WT3 plugged in? The volume for the WT3 should be set to max IIRC.
www.woofertester.com
InDIYana Event Website
Hopefully this is the last hiccup in finally designing and measuring.....
You can actually build a temp fixture pretty easily, but it will be delicate.
You will need in/out to your computer sound card, so typically a 3.5mm male stereo connector on one end and
probably 2 male RCA plugs on the other. Either plug the RCAs into RCA jacks or cut them off, but in any case connect about 15 feet of 14-16 gauge zip cord with 2 alligator clips on the end to attach to the speaker under test.
This is back underway and almost ready to search for another crossover designer (or the same? 😏) 😊😊😊
Starting beauty panel creation now....
You may want to consider flush mounting the drivers.
If you need to put one on top and the other under to fit, I’d go the other way around and under-mount the woofs and flush / top mount the tweets
I think I decided to go this way due to the proximity of the tweet and the butchering of the faceplate that would be necessary as well as how compact the baffle is to fit my restrictions.
A matter of compromises unfortunately. I believe your concern is the x-axis for phasing or time alignment, yes? I may be able to pull the tweeter out further and use the beauty panel as the faceplate/waveguide. Same difference?
Thanks!
diffraction of tweeter's wave (per placement as shown) through the 90 degree cut hole
if you can camber the hole a bit towards a mini-waveguide that may attenuate the issue
Oh! I did, it's rounded over to mimic the original faceplate, picture must have been before I did it.
Thanks!
Just sticking my nose in.
These are the settings I use with WT3/DATS 2 combo;
Make sure the WT3 is chosen hardware in preferences.
Who is this Kenny person?
Wasn't Kenny killed numerous time on that cartoon?
InDIYana Event Website
There were times I wished we did not share names... TBH not many call me Kenny.