A guy I worked with used something like Black Jack tar to seal the inside of his cabinets. Not only did it smell bad, it caused his Dynaudio woofers to physically distort. Take the woofers out and the cones went back to their original shape.
All good info. Yep, silicone off gases terribly. PP and HDPE are hard to bond to. My recommendation is gel superglue for PP, not sure on the HDPE. You could try it at any rate.
Yeah I used silicone one time to glue denim insulation inside a cabinet since I had some left in a tube. The enclosed space concentrates it quite a bit. The gasses smell and burn the nose kind of like vinegar. Must be a similar acid.
These probably won't see drivers all that soon anyway.
The flange on them seems conducive to being removable too. Make a thin foam gasket out of sheet foam. Add an MDF ring to apply even pressure around the flange. Then screw it all down.
The cups feel nice and solid in there. No give at all. Good idea on the silicone!
Just need to trim some scraps to size for front-back braces then will be ready to glue the backs on... Need to remember to drill the cups for a wire hole before I do that. (hopefully typing this out I won't forget lol)
Went to a local Rockler looking for PSA veneer to try. Sofar I've only done weldwood on paper backed. Unfortunately it looks like they only carry large sheets in the stores. Though, for a different project, I picked up a 1x8x99" cherry board for $32. Edge is a little banged up and has some sapwood but amazingly straight board. I should be able to get at least a couple pairs of narrow baffles out of it. That is super cheap compared to the chain hardware stores. If you can even find any that carry cherry in 1x6" or wider. Also picked up some Arm-R-seal to finally try that stuff out.
Then I ran over to the Woodcraft store nearby. They had some PSA walnut in smaller dimension. I'm only planning to use it on a few sides of these cabinets for some accent/contrast.
More progress. I hope I can sand down the sides that will get veneer tomorrow and maybe spray some water based poly to seal things if needed. Planning to do a mix of solid black counter laminate and the walnut veneer. Mostly just need to pay attention to the spots getting veneer.
I block sanded them and they seem reasonably smooth now. I don't think I'll need to pre-spray them.
I did a single 1/2" roundover on the top front edge. A guy over on PETT was testing bending veneer around a tight radius against the grain (with success) and that made me want to try. If it works out.. The veneer will start on the top face and "spill" down the front. The sides will get the black laminate. Thinking that will complement the black drivers and make the veneer pop even more.
The PVA veneer might not have been the best choice for this, but I heard that water based weldwood is compatible. Applying a coat of it to the enclosure should both seal the porous surface and create more of a cement on cement bond for boosted adhesion. And I'll be trying out a DIY veneer softener recipe to help it make the bend.
Won't be able to start back up on em until next week though. Got stuff going on this weekend.
I chopped up the laminate into the sizes needed, but now it is flurrying outside. Too cold to do anything this evening. Things look up by the end of the week though
My mind wandered while making the score cuts in the laminate... Could this be considered a subgenre/style of 3-way? Small Form factor tweeter, "Fullrange" mid, and Subwoofer driver for the woofer? An "SFS". I guess the idea hasn't necessarily caught on, so a bit early to call it something.
I looked up the minimum temp for working with the red can weldwood.. 65°F Yikes! I'm not going to wait for days that warm.
So today I applied the back and bottom sheets in the kitchen. Then opened up the windows in the house to blow the stink out before turning the furnace back on. I'm sure it will still linger a bit, but hopefully not so bad I get the wrath when my wife gets home.
Crossing fingers work is slow tomorrow; so I can get the sides on and trimmed.
Nice thanks! I'll probably put in an order for that stuff. I'm down to the last dregs on this gallon of weldwood so should be done with it after these last pieces. Though if I have a chance to apply veneer this weekend I may still go get a quart of the water based weldwood since I can get it quick locally.
Sofar I think I'm going to skip the grills/rings on the TC9s. But I thought someone else might be interested in seeing it as an option. I should probably post the pics over on the other grill thread I made.
Yeah the veneer is PSA backed. I had heard the PSA adhesive is compatible with the water based stuff to help adhere to an unfinished surface apparently. So it is only being applied to the particle board. Crossing my fingers on this one.
So this is the second time I've worked with veneer and I'm already trying advanced stuff. Pretty dumb, but for some reason I've always gotta try something new. I made a veneer softener of 3 parts water, 1 part glycerin, 1 part isopropyl alcohol. Mixed it up in a spray bottle and spritzed the veneer surface prior to application. Not sure if it did anything more than build up my confidence enough to give it a shot over the 1/2" radius.
I couldn't match them since I went with a 1'x8' sheet instead of a 2'x4' piece that would have had a chance for a couple bookmatched sections. I didn't nail the centerline perfectly when applying, but hopefully the off-center drivers and not matched veneer will break it up enough to be less noticeable.
Not fully trimmed yet, but that is enough effort for today. Crossing fingers it holds down over the next 24hrs
They do look quite professionally finished at this point, Drew - great job.
How do you plan to coat the veneer and not mess up the laminate on 3 sides?
I was juggling a few ideas.. Initially wanted to try GF arm-r-seal, but it is oil based so probably way too stinky to dry inside. A shellac would work and less potent on the stink. But I saw a video on the GF Enduro-var and was very intrigued. A water based urethane that can still get some of the deep coloration like an oil based poly. Eye-wateringly expensive though.. $58/qt +tax at my local Rockler.
My wife still complains about water based poly smell.. but that is much better than the ultimatums I'd get for oil based stuff.
My current idea is to foam-brush on a few coats of enduro-var to get the bulk built up with less drama. Then, after final sanding, cut the driver holes and mask everything off to spray the final coat with my Wagner hvlp rig. That way I don't have to tip-toe around the driver holes with the foam brush, which would be much more annoying and likely cause streaks.
When it comes to clear finishes on unstained wood I am very aggressive with block sanding on the first few coats. I will sand through the surface of the finish without mercy. Only stopping when I can see the majority of the surface has been roughened up... Meaning it is pretty flat. The finish helps soak in the wood and plasticize it to lock in the flatness as I go.
But I know I'm playing with fire on thin veneer. There was one spot I could tell there was an air pocket under the veneer. I probably came close to sanding through. oops. I think I popped it sufficiently with the box cutter.
This stuff lightens up a ton compared to where still wet and soaked into the wood. This latest sanding I thought I only blew through the finish in a couple small spots. But after applying another coat it tells a different story. Sheesh.
This is the 6th coat. I'm going to call it the last brushed-on coat and move on. As this is starting to resemble "work". Can't have that
The Enduro-var will pull away from spots that have not been sanded. So everywhere needs to be touched with the paper. Going to need to be extra careful on the last sanding. Probably less with the foam-lined block and more by hand. Thinking of trying two thin spray coats maybe a half hour apart rather than a single heavier coat. That might yield a flatter final coat in case there are still some light sand-through spots.
Not exactly impressed with GF Enduro-var (II) sofar. Especially for the price. It might be a little darker than standard water based poly, but that would be the only visual difference that I can tell from other much cheaper brands. It seems a little less watery than cheaper stuff so maybe it can go on slightly thicker. But it didn't seem to make a meaningful difference to me. It is a bubble magnet and they don't all pop themselves. The original enduro-var I hear had a 4 hour dry time instead of 2hours like version II. I wonder if that extra dry time allowed bubbles to pop and flatten out more. If you want the extra work time back, now you gotta buy an additional additive. yeeeeah.. no
Comments
A guy I worked with used something like Black Jack tar to seal the inside of his cabinets. Not only did it smell bad, it caused his Dynaudio woofers to physically distort. Take the woofers out and the cones went back to their original shape.
All good info. Yep, silicone off gases terribly. PP and HDPE are hard to bond to. My recommendation is gel superglue for PP, not sure on the HDPE. You could try it at any rate.
InDIYana Event Website
Yeah I used silicone one time to glue denim insulation inside a cabinet since I had some left in a tube. The enclosed space concentrates it quite a bit. The gasses smell and burn the nose kind of like vinegar. Must be a similar acid.
These probably won't see drivers all that soon anyway.
9" sport cone and PL500?
Ooh sport cones. Nice idea!
The flange on them seems conducive to being removable too. Make a thin foam gasket out of sheet foam. Add an MDF ring to apply even pressure around the flange. Then screw it all down.
The cups feel nice and solid in there. No give at all. Good idea on the silicone!
Just need to trim some scraps to size for front-back braces then will be ready to glue the backs on... Need to remember to drill the cups for a wire hole before I do that. (hopefully typing this out I won't forget lol)
Went to a local Rockler looking for PSA veneer to try. Sofar I've only done weldwood on paper backed. Unfortunately it looks like they only carry large sheets in the stores. Though, for a different project, I picked up a 1x8x99" cherry board for $32. Edge is a little banged up and has some sapwood but amazingly straight board. I should be able to get at least a couple pairs of narrow baffles out of it. That is super cheap compared to the chain hardware stores. If you can even find any that carry cherry in 1x6" or wider. Also picked up some Arm-R-seal to finally try that stuff out.
Then I ran over to the Woodcraft store nearby. They had some PSA walnut in smaller dimension. I'm only planning to use it on a few sides of these cabinets for some accent/contrast.
More progress. I hope I can sand down the sides that will get veneer tomorrow and maybe spray some water based poly to seal things if needed. Planning to do a mix of solid black counter laminate and the walnut veneer. Mostly just need to pay attention to the spots getting veneer.
I love this project!
I block sanded them and they seem reasonably smooth now. I don't think I'll need to pre-spray them.
I did a single 1/2" roundover on the top front edge. A guy over on PETT was testing bending veneer around a tight radius against the grain (with success) and that made me want to try. If it works out.. The veneer will start on the top face and "spill" down the front. The sides will get the black laminate. Thinking that will complement the black drivers and make the veneer pop even more.
The PVA veneer might not have been the best choice for this, but I heard that water based weldwood is compatible. Applying a coat of it to the enclosure should both seal the porous surface and create more of a cement on cement bond for boosted adhesion. And I'll be trying out a DIY veneer softener recipe to help it make the bend.
Won't be able to start back up on em until next week though. Got stuff going on this weekend.
Back from a mini vaca.
I took a shot at grills/trim rings incase I could recess the driver with a simple circle jig cutout and cover the ugliness with a trim ring. Ordered these:
https://amazon.com/dp/B075DZ3MT6?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
The screw holes line up almost exactly with the TC9. But don't look the greatest with the grill removed...
Meh.. Would work nicely if the grills were to stay. But without, probably best just leave em surface mount.
Surface mount for the win/looks - the trim ring should help with diffraction.
I kind of like the trim ring sans grill. Gives it an old timey kind of look.
I chopped up the laminate into the sizes needed, but now it is flurrying outside. Too cold to do anything this evening. Things look up by the end of the week though
My mind wandered while making the score cuts in the laminate... Could this be considered a subgenre/style of 3-way? Small Form factor tweeter, "Fullrange" mid, and Subwoofer driver for the woofer? An "SFS". I guess the idea hasn't necessarily caught on, so a bit early to call it something.
I looked up the minimum temp for working with the red can weldwood.. 65°F Yikes! I'm not going to wait for days that warm.
So today I applied the back and bottom sheets in the kitchen. Then opened up the windows in the house to blow the stink out before turning the furnace back on. I'm sure it will still linger a bit, but hopefully not so bad I get the wrath when my wife gets home.
Crossing fingers work is slow tomorrow; so I can get the sides on and trimmed.
I would get shot if I did that! Just sayin
Also have an infestation of fruit flies for some reason so I made a cider vinegar trap.. covering one stink with another stink
She's been home a half hour now and nary a comment. I think I'm in the clear
The Wilson Art H2O is your friend. Stuff is awesome.
Nice thanks! I'll probably put in an order for that stuff. I'm down to the last dregs on this gallon of weldwood so should be done with it after these last pieces. Though if I have a chance to apply veneer this weekend I may still go get a quart of the water based weldwood since I can get it quick locally.
Those are going to look great! Nice find on the grills for the TC9s.
Just a heads up... I remember Mike C. (D1PP1N) had some issues with the water based Weldwood contact cement and his veneer lifting.
Sofar I think I'm going to skip the grills/rings on the TC9s. But I thought someone else might be interested in seeing it as an option. I should probably post the pics over on the other grill thread I made.
Yeah the veneer is PSA backed. I had heard the PSA adhesive is compatible with the water based stuff to help adhere to an unfinished surface apparently. So it is only being applied to the particle board. Crossing my fingers on this one.
Chugging along..
So this is the second time I've worked with veneer and I'm already trying advanced stuff. Pretty dumb, but for some reason I've always gotta try something new. I made a veneer softener of 3 parts water, 1 part glycerin, 1 part isopropyl alcohol. Mixed it up in a spray bottle and spritzed the veneer surface prior to application. Not sure if it did anything more than build up my confidence enough to give it a shot over the 1/2" radius.
I couldn't match them since I went with a 1'x8' sheet instead of a 2'x4' piece that would have had a chance for a couple bookmatched sections. I didn't nail the centerline perfectly when applying, but hopefully the off-center drivers and not matched veneer will break it up enough to be less noticeable.
Not fully trimmed yet, but that is enough effort for today. Crossing fingers it holds down over the next 24hrs
Saaaaaweeeet!
They do look quite professionally finished at this point, Drew - great job.
How do you plan to coat the veneer and not mess up the laminate on 3 sides?
I was juggling a few ideas.. Initially wanted to try GF arm-r-seal, but it is oil based so probably way too stinky to dry inside. A shellac would work and less potent on the stink. But I saw a video on the GF Enduro-var and was very intrigued. A water based urethane that can still get some of the deep coloration like an oil based poly. Eye-wateringly expensive though.. $58/qt +tax at my local Rockler.
My wife still complains about water based poly smell.. but that is much better than the ultimatums I'd get for oil based stuff.
My current idea is to foam-brush on a few coats of enduro-var to get the bulk built up with less drama. Then, after final sanding, cut the driver holes and mask everything off to spray the final coat with my Wagner hvlp rig. That way I don't have to tip-toe around the driver holes with the foam brush, which would be much more annoying and likely cause streaks.
The Enduro-var inspiration.. Some real nice color and sheen there for an off-the-shelf water based urethane. (skip to ~9:20 for the results)
Just closed the lid after the first coat. Err mah gerrrrd!
They pop!
That looks like vinyl wrap on a factory made cabinet.
When it comes to clear finishes on unstained wood I am very aggressive with block sanding on the first few coats. I will sand through the surface of the finish without mercy. Only stopping when I can see the majority of the surface has been roughened up... Meaning it is pretty flat. The finish helps soak in the wood and plasticize it to lock in the flatness as I go.
But I know I'm playing with fire on thin veneer. There was one spot I could tell there was an air pocket under the veneer. I probably came close to sanding through. oops. I think I popped it sufficiently with the box cutter.
This stuff lightens up a ton compared to where still wet and soaked into the wood. This latest sanding I thought I only blew through the finish in a couple small spots. But after applying another coat it tells a different story. Sheesh.
This is the 6th coat. I'm going to call it the last brushed-on coat and move on. As this is starting to resemble "work". Can't have that
The Enduro-var will pull away from spots that have not been sanded. So everywhere needs to be touched with the paper. Going to need to be extra careful on the last sanding. Probably less with the foam-lined block and more by hand. Thinking of trying two thin spray coats maybe a half hour apart rather than a single heavier coat. That might yield a flatter final coat in case there are still some light sand-through spots.
Not exactly impressed with GF Enduro-var (II) sofar. Especially for the price. It might be a little darker than standard water based poly, but that would be the only visual difference that I can tell from other much cheaper brands. It seems a little less watery than cheaper stuff so maybe it can go on slightly thicker. But it didn't seem to make a meaningful difference to me. It is a bubble magnet and they don't all pop themselves. The original enduro-var I hear had a 4 hour dry time instead of 2hours like version II. I wonder if that extra dry time allowed bubbles to pop and flatten out more. If you want the extra work time back, now you gotta buy an additional additive.
yeeeeah.. no