@PWRRYD said:
To back up my observations and earlier comments regarding the Beston vs the MAC, here is the distortion measurement of the MAC-4 driver inbox, same mic distance, same drive level, etc. Raw driver measurements, no crossovers applied:
Yeah, there is a distortion blip around 2.2k but it doesn't stand out in any way. In my opinion this driver sounds WAY cleaner and more detailed through the midrange compared to the Dayton ND105-4 or the TCP115-4. The ND105 is harsh and the TCP115 is kind of dull.
So, in other words, this (the MAC 4") is the PERFECT candidate to create a viable 2-way with the Beston? And Wolf won't be the only designer with enough skill to meld it into a commercial-grade kit or successful finished product? [A thinly veiled challenge from a schmoe with a pair of Bestons on the shelf.]
@Steve_Lee said:
What if it was crossed 6db down at 2KHz using an electronic/DSP filter/XO?
Do the evaluation yourself. You can measure with any digital filter applied easily in REW in the current beta. Just measure your driver without filter for baseline, then apply any EQ filter you wish, then under filter tasks, select "measure with these filters" and repeat as necessary. Very powerful tool.
So I had a couple of Dayton ND28F-6 on my shelf so I tried one in place of the Beston. It's much smaller so I had to hot glue it to the baffle from the backside (surface mounted, arg). It isn't pretty to look at but measures WAY better.
@PWRRYD said:
So I had a couple of Dayton ND28F-6 on my shelf so I tried one in place of the Beston. It's much smaller so I had to hot glue it to the baffle from the backside (surface mounted, arg). It isn't pretty to look at but measures WAY better.
I'm going to have a friend at work 3D print some trim rings to hide the 3 holes left from mounting the larger Bestons. It's too cold out to make new baffles.
I wanted to use that tweeter some years ago. I liked what I initially heard, but getting 2 that matched wasn't in the cards, at least not at that point time. I think that was the same year they were having QC problems with the RST28F.
The original pair of Antigens (a play on the Microbe design by Roman B.) are RS125S-8/ND28F-6 2-ways built in 2008 and are still in regular use. Simmed by Ben.
Good little tweeters, and I agree they may not match in FR. I have had a single DOA as well. Tested to be good to 2k. I used them in the Canvas project with the W5-704, and simmed the Antigens for Richard (cool that you still have them). They were used in the Swopes by Paul C, and many others.
I have my pair of modded ring-dome versions yet to try too...
Here's a picture of a raw 3D printed trim ring. They will get a light sanding and a thin coat of matte black spray paint. It fits so well (snug) I don't think I'll need to use any kind of adhesive. I will obviously install four #4 screws in the tweeters' flanges just for looks.
@PWRRYD said:
Here's a picture of a raw 3D printed trim ring. They will get a light sanding and a thin coat of matte black spray paint. It fits so well (snug) I don't think I'll need to use any kind of adhesive. I will obviously install four #4 screws in the tweeters' flanges just for looks.
This is likely a prudent move for another reason beyond the Beston sounding like garbage; it (the round Beston) has gone CLEARANCE-->NLA on PE.
@PWRRYD said:
Here's a picture of a raw 3D printed trim ring. They will get a light sanding and a thin coat of matte black spray paint. It fits so well (snug) I don't think I'll need to use any kind of adhesive. I will obviously install four #4 screws in the tweeters' flanges just for looks.
This is likely a prudent move for another reason beyond the Beston sounding like garbage; it (the round Beston) has gone CLEARANCE-->NLA on PE.
Yes I did David. My "DIY project ADHD" gets in the way a lot. I can post up final measurements, crossovers, and personal impressions later this week. Thanks for asking.
Well... it won't do a "strong 40Hz" LOL! Seriously though it produces very nice bass for a 4" driver. Modeled F3 is around 54 Hz but it doesn't roll off at the typical 4th order 24 dB/octave, more like 15 dB/octave. In other words it sounds much larger than it is. The great midrange from this MAC-4 driver rubs the ND105-4 and TCP115-4 drivers' dicks in the dirt. At $20 it is a steal! Even at $30 I would recommend them.
Overall these speakers image really well with a nice wide sound stage. I am surprised how much I like these cheap Dayton ND28F-6 neo tweeters. So much better than all of the other Dayton neos I've used or heard. My pair matches each other perfectly but as I've read that is a legit concern with them.
My Canvas uses it with the TB W5-704, if I didn't mention it earlier.
When it came onto the scene, it was one of the first small format 1" domes that could xover below 3kHz, and reputable to 2kHz.
ND28F-6 was a lot more popular around 2010-1015.
Comments
So, in other words, this (the MAC 4") is the PERFECT candidate to create a viable 2-way with the Beston? And Wolf won't be the only designer with enough skill to meld it into a commercial-grade kit or successful finished product? [A thinly veiled challenge from a schmoe with a pair of Bestons on the shelf.]
Do the evaluation yourself. You can measure with any digital filter applied easily in REW in the current beta. Just measure your driver without filter for baseline, then apply any EQ filter you wish, then under filter tasks, select "measure with these filters" and repeat as necessary. Very powerful tool.
So I had a couple of Dayton ND28F-6 on my shelf so I tried one in place of the Beston. It's much smaller so I had to hot glue it to the baffle from the backside (surface mounted, arg). It isn't pretty to look at but measures WAY better.
Now you just need a warm day to cut some new baffles!
Worked up a very nice looking sim today at lunch. LR4 @ 3000 Hz. Only 9 small parts needed. I should be listening to these this weekend.
I'm interested in your impressions on that tweeter.
3d print some enlarged mounting plates?
or grills?
https://www.amazon.com/MEETOOT-Rolled-Loudspeaker-Mounting-Speaker/dp/B09L7LBTGV/ref=m_crc_dp_lf_d_t1_d_sccl_2_1/143-4425620-6115652?pd_rd_w=ShGIW&content-id=amzn1.sym.76a0b561-a7b4-41dc-9467-a85a2fa27c1c&pf_rd_p=76a0b561-a7b4-41dc-9467-a85a2fa27c1c&pf_rd_r=9WK1TDKKV2YZ616VX6Y4&pd_rd_wg=T8OsH&pd_rd_r=cedd24b6-a87c-4d29-8d18-8adf4ddcf716&pd_rd_i=B09L7LBTGV&th=1
It looks awesome. Is it 7 inch wide baffle?
I, too, am curious about that tweeter. Seems a pretty robust little feller.
Yes, 7" wide by 10" tall with 3/4" roundovers.
I'm going to have a friend at work 3D print some trim rings to hide the 3 holes left from mounting the larger Bestons. It's too cold out to make new baffles.
Several years back I used it and I recall Ben and I having a discussion about the ND28 tweeter.
I wanted to use that tweeter some years ago. I liked what I initially heard, but getting 2 that matched wasn't in the cards, at least not at that point time. I think that was the same year they were having QC problems with the RST28F.
The original pair of Antigens (a play on the Microbe design by Roman B.) are RS125S-8/ND28F-6 2-ways built in 2008 and are still in regular use. Simmed by Ben.
Another suggestion, route a recess around the tweet and inlay some felt?
Are you planning on rerouting the baffle for the printed trim ring?
Good little tweeters, and I agree they may not match in FR. I have had a single DOA as well. Tested to be good to 2k. I used them in the Canvas project with the W5-704, and simmed the Antigens for Richard (cool that you still have them). They were used in the Swopes by Paul C, and many others.
I have my pair of modded ring-dome versions yet to try too...
InDIYana Event Website
I just sold two on eBay because their FR‘s were so different from each other.
Here's a picture of a raw 3D printed trim ring. They will get a light sanding and a thin coat of matte black spray paint. It fits so well (snug) I don't think I'll need to use any kind of adhesive. I will obviously install four #4 screws in the tweeters' flanges just for looks.
Nice job Craig.
This is likely a prudent move for another reason beyond the Beston sounding like garbage; it (the round Beston) has gone CLEARANCE-->NLA on PE.
Bye Felicia
Mine are for sale if anyone wants to build a pair of Ben's Stances.
Yep, they are not even listed on PE. All of the other models are still there though.
InDIYana Event Website
@PWRRYD , I know you're working on your 3-way Christmas build now, but did you get these voiced and all buttoned up with the Dayton Tweeter?
Yes I did David. My "DIY project ADHD" gets in the way a lot. I can post up final measurements, crossovers, and personal impressions later this week. Thanks for asking.
As promised here are some measurements and such:
Wow! That looks like a high-value speaker. Your crossover parts are all very reasonable as well.
How is the low end with this driver?
And how does the tweeter sound? The only design I know that uses that tweeter is Paul Carmody's Swopes which I've never heard.
Well... it won't do a "strong 40Hz" LOL! Seriously though it produces very nice bass for a 4" driver. Modeled F3 is around 54 Hz but it doesn't roll off at the typical 4th order 24 dB/octave, more like 15 dB/octave. In other words it sounds much larger than it is. The great midrange from this MAC-4 driver rubs the ND105-4 and TCP115-4 drivers' dicks in the dirt. At $20 it is a steal! Even at $30 I would recommend them.
Overall these speakers image really well with a nice wide sound stage. I am surprised how much I like these cheap Dayton ND28F-6 neo tweeters. So much better than all of the other Dayton neos I've used or heard. My pair matches each other perfectly but as I've read that is a legit concern with them.
DDIY 2016. I used them.
My Canvas uses it with the TB W5-704, if I didn't mention it earlier.
When it came onto the scene, it was one of the first small format 1" domes that could xover below 3kHz, and reputable to 2kHz.
ND28F-6 was a lot more popular around 2010-1015.
InDIYana Event Website