@DrewsBrews said:
Is that where the rubber surround starts getting floppy?
That "dip" happens with a lot of surrounds.
One of the things I like(d) about Rival woofers was that they seemed to have addressed that issue successfully.
But Chahly - Stahkist don't want speakers that look good, Stahkist wants speakers that sound good!
Basically, yes. If the surround doesn't have an indexed attachment or gradual curve to mate well with the cone edge, or a damping of some sort at the transition, then acoustically it is seen as an abrupt change equidistant from the origin center of the driver.
TB uses an applied damping adhesive in the groove of the surround attachment or a textured or structurally different material on some models to abate this issue.
To breakup the modal issues of the cone helps the problem too.
The SIG180 don't have this issue due to the indexed attachment and angled attachment point.
The Satori MW16 has a dip around 1.5k due to the problem and being a 6" woofer. Most 8" with this problem are centered between 700-900Hz.
Most people will say narrow dips are inaudible. If they are broad dips, spectral tonality will change and it may sound off or like something is missing or at a lower level than it should be.
When I did the Cecropias, the CAW634 had a dip in this 1.5k range and it just didn't sound right to me. The replacement and upgrade to the TSCW636, which spec states did not have this dip, fixed the issue and I was finally happy with the sound in this range.
With modern computers/DSP, it’s very easy to dial in a PEQ of a woofer that doesn’t have this dip, and check for yourself how objectionable you find it…
PRV 4MR60-4 or the Dayton PC105-4 - for this project anyway, I would rather stay away from pincushion frames. I could rear mount them, so I guess they are still an option.
I've been sitting on this solution for a bit (PC105)..
Would need to figure out some shallow head screws for the driver flange. I'm thinking computer fan mount screws should work. Also would require nipping a little bit off the flange corners that stick out from underneath. The glossy plastic arrives a bit beat up, but it looks better IMO with a spritz of matte clearcoat anyway.
@jr@mac said:
Looks like I'm late to the party or I would have recommended the 3" HiVi dome. I would not hesitate to use it to 600-700Hz and it sounds fantastic.
Thanks JR - I wondered about that dude, and dreaming of another 3 way with a dome mid.
But Chahly - Stahkist don't want speakers that look good, Stahkist wants speakers that sound good!
@jr@mac said:
Looks like I'm late to the party or I would have recommended the 3" HiVi dome. I would not hesitate to use it to 600-700Hz and it sounds fantastic.
How would you say it compares to the Morel CAM 558?
As Ben said, I used the 5" SS Disco in my Victors build. Really nice mid and was easy to work with. Ended up with 2nd order on both sides and crossed at 300/3khz. That was something like 6 or 7 years ago and they still work great!
@jr@mac said:
Looks like I'm late to the party or I would have recommended the 3" HiVi dome. I would not hesitate to use it to 600-700Hz and it sounds fantastic.
Thanks JR - I wondered about that dude, and dreaming of another 3 way with a dome mid.
Someone needs to organize a group buy on those, less than $50 each from HiVi on Alibaba if you buy 100.
@isaeagle4031 said:
As Ben said, I used the 5" SS Disco in my Victors build. Really nice mid and was easy to work with. Ended up with 2nd order on both sides and crossed at 300/3khz. That was something like 6 or 7 years ago and they still work great!
I have wondered about those, don't see them used much. I had a pair in my cart during Solen's name your price sale, but couldn't pull the trigger.
Comments
Is that where the rubber surround starts getting floppy?
That "dip" happens with a lot of surrounds.
One of the things I like(d) about Rival woofers was that they seemed to have addressed that issue successfully.
Basically, yes. If the surround doesn't have an indexed attachment or gradual curve to mate well with the cone edge, or a damping of some sort at the transition, then acoustically it is seen as an abrupt change equidistant from the origin center of the driver.
TB uses an applied damping adhesive in the groove of the surround attachment or a textured or structurally different material on some models to abate this issue.
To breakup the modal issues of the cone helps the problem too.
The SIG180 don't have this issue due to the indexed attachment and angled attachment point.
The Satori MW16 has a dip around 1.5k due to the problem and being a 6" woofer. Most 8" with this problem are centered between 700-900Hz.
InDIYana Event Website
Is this dip actually audible?
Most people will say narrow dips are inaudible. If they are broad dips, spectral tonality will change and it may sound off or like something is missing or at a lower level than it should be.
When I did the Cecropias, the CAW634 had a dip in this 1.5k range and it just didn't sound right to me. The replacement and upgrade to the TSCW636, which spec states did not have this dip, fixed the issue and I was finally happy with the sound in this range.
InDIYana Event Website
If a dip was in a graph, but no one was there to see it, would it sound bad?
With modern computers/DSP, it’s very easy to dial in a PEQ of a woofer that doesn’t have this dip, and check for yourself how objectionable you find it…
Woofers showed up yesterday, these things are beasts!
Dayton SD215 8" for size reference
Great looking woofers and nice comparison picture next to those (now) expensive Dayton woofers.
I've been sitting on this solution for a bit (PC105)..
Would need to figure out some shallow head screws for the driver flange. I'm thinking computer fan mount screws should work. Also would require nipping a little bit off the flange corners that stick out from underneath. The glossy plastic arrives a bit beat up, but it looks better IMO with a spritz of matte clearcoat anyway.
https://www.amazon.com/MEETOOT-Rolled-Loudspeaker-Mounting-Speaker/dp/B09L7KXFL2/ref=m_crc_dp_lf_d_t1_d_sccl_2_2/143-4425620-6115652?pd_rd_i=B09L7KXFL2&th=1
Looks like I'm late to the party or I would have recommended the 3" HiVi dome. I would not hesitate to use it to 600-700Hz and it sounds fantastic.
Thanks JR - I wondered about that dude, and dreaming of another 3 way with a dome mid.
How would you say it compares to the Morel CAM 558?
Been a long time since I heard that one, but in a few weeks I'll start working with it. I'll give some feedback then.
As Ben said, I used the 5" SS Disco in my Victors build. Really nice mid and was easy to work with. Ended up with 2nd order on both sides and crossed at 300/3khz. That was something like 6 or 7 years ago and they still work great!
I look forward to seeing how it compares.
Someone needs to organize a group buy on those, less than $50 each from HiVi on Alibaba if you buy 100.
I have wondered about those, don't see them used much. I had a pair in my cart during Solen's name your price sale, but couldn't pull the trigger.