Based on @Gowa 's final drive unit selection, and the suggestions of forum members, my interpretation is that the OP is requesting a wide dispersion tweeter, in the traditional sense. eg. small dome size, wide dispersion in top octaves whilst fulfilling price criteria.
I will discuss this further with @dcibel 's help in a separate thread, at a later date.
I didn't find one comment on PETT other than someone simply mentioning that it existed in a thread on inexpensive tweeters.
I can't imagine it's that hard to make a cheap and not great 1" soft dome tweeter. What would cause that? I'm tempted to get one and measure it just to see if that is real.
Sometimes you just need to loosen and tighten the bolts holding the faceplate on. Other times ot is from a poor chamber design. Not uncommon, especially on cheaper tweeters.
I rarely (maybe never) seen a DIY design that uses the ScanSpeak D2008 or D2010 20mm dome tweeters. I think these are similar in design to the Hiquphon tweeters. I know the spec sheet for the Scan's rate their power handling with a 2nd order filter at 4 Khz but I think they could go a little lower than that. I currently been testing the Hiquiphon OW2 in a waveguide with a 2.8kHz filter to better match the directivity of the 4-inch SEAS W12CY006 Midrange. I have used the SB21SDC tweeter with a waveguide on a previous design I would say it's better than the Dayton Audio ND20FB I have also used with a waveguide (Yes, I'm addicted to waveguides) but not as special as the Hiquphon. I have a pair of OEM Wavecore TW022WA03 tweeters without a faceplate that I may use on a 2 way speaker in the future. (Yes, I also am a big fan of <1" soft dome tweeter) I also have a pair of Vifa Titanium dome NE19VTT 3/4" tweeters I'm going to use in a design "Someday" I haven't built a design with a metal dome tweeter in over 25years. I have also used the Peerless XT19 and OT19 ring radiator tweeters in designs with waveguides - these are both excellent sounding tweeters, but the dispersion is not as good as a 3/4" dome tweeter. The worst sounding tweeter that I have used is the Peerless OC20, It doesn't sound right. I have asked the guys at Dayton Audio about designing a Reference Series 3/4" dome tweeter, they don't have any plans of doing so. The Dayton audio ND20FB and ND25FN are two of the best value tweeters on the market.
@Shawn_K said:
I rarely (maybe never) seen a DIY design that uses the ScanSpeak D2008 or D2010 20mm dome tweeters. I think these are similar in design to the Hiquphon tweeters. I know the spec sheet for the Scan's rate their power handling with a 2nd order filter at 4 Khz but I think they could go a little lower than that. I currently been testing the Hiquiphon OW2 in a waveguide with a 2.8kHz filter to better match the directivity of the 4-inch SEAS W12CY006 Midrange. I have used the SB21SDC tweeter with a waveguide on a previous design I would say it's better than the Dayton Audio ND20FB I have also used with a waveguide (Yes, I'm addicted to waveguides) but not as special as the Hiquphon. I have a pair of OEM Wavecore TW022WA03 tweeters without a faceplate that I may use on a 2 way speaker in the future. (Yes, I also am a big fan of <1" soft dome tweeter) I also have a pair of Vifa Titanium dome NE19VTT 3/4" tweeters I'm going to use in a design "Someday" I haven't built a design with a metal dome tweeter in over 25years. I have also used the Peerless XT19 and OT19 ring radiator tweeters in designs with waveguides - these are both excellent sounding tweeters, but the dispersion is not as good as a 3/4" dome tweeter. The worst sounding tweeter that I have used is the Peerless OC20, It doesn't sound right. I have asked the guys at Dayton Audio about designing a Reference Series 3/4" dome tweeter, they don't have any plans of doing so. The Dayton audio ND20FB and ND25FN are two of the best value tweeters on the market.
Yeah, apparently their in-house transducer designer is strictly a woofer guy, so Dayton tweeters will generally be of the "off the shelf" Chinese varieties.
I was hoping for a "Signature" series tweeter, but that ain't happening either.
Too bad, I think Dayton is leaving something on the table by not competing directly with Peerless and SB at a tweeter level.
I used them in my Iron Driver entry in 2018. I crossed at 3K but their spec sheet says the power rating was measured crossed at 2800 12db/oct Butterworth so you could probably go lower going 4th order. My entry took 1st place but only one other entry showed up.
@Ron_E said:
I used them in my Iron Driver entry in 2018. I crossed at 3K but their spec sheet says the power rating was measured crossed at 2800 12db/oct Butterworth so you could probably go lower going 4th order. My entry took 1st place but only one other entry showed up.
It's my go to tweeter for budget builds.
Ron, that was one of the best speakers I heard in Iowa. They had a very holographic, 3D type sound quality. After hearing these, I bought two pair of these tweeters from Meniscus and then picked up another used pair off one of the event swap tables. I'll be using these in a couple future builds.
Not that I want to steer this away.. but does recessing the midbass with that shape frame seem to make a difference for soundstage/imaging? Wondering if I should bite the bullet and recess mine before I finish up the crossover. Think I may have figured out a way to do it and reduce the chance of screwing it up.
For midbass, flush mount is mostly for visual appearance, you won't see much change in FR. High frequencies from a tweeter however are very much affected, that you may even see some small change in tweeter response from it being next to a surface mount midbass vs flush mount.
Here's the response from on-axis, all the way out to 90 degrees, in 10 degree steps. Remember that 90 is perpendicular to the speaker!
The on-axis dip between 5-7KHz is due to a baffle diffraction effect.
I'm with you on this one Ron; wide dispersion and low distortion. And had I used a slightly wider cabinet like yours, and used larger eg. 1.5" round-overs, the diffraction effect would be almost completely eliminated.
For DSPers or tuners who like to equalise everything perfectly flat- well this is one reason why other people often say "you shouldn't massage out every lump and bump in the frequency response"... or "a perfectly flat frequency response doesn't sound right"
Because you shouldn't, and it doesn't.
Look what's happens if you tune it perfectly flat. Look at the frequency responses...
If I had EQed it to be completely flat, I would have been left with peaking in all off axis angles between 5KHz - 7KKHz.
I don't want extra energy at those frequencies, bouncing off walls and coming back a me.
The other major reason I chose it was "what happened to my wallet after buying the PTT4.0X? "
Regardless, OP just wanted a "what tweeter is good and affordable" without any other detail, actual speaker off
axis performance is still up in the air.
Fully agreed.
Actual tweeter performance depends on baffle (or lack thereof- @charlielaub ) size and shape, and position of the tweeter on the baffle. baffle flatness (concave narrows dispersion, convex widens dispersion), edge treatments (round-overs / facets, or lack thereof). In short, by surrounding a transducer with an object you force (or guide) the soundwaves into a certain direction causing a so-called pattern control a.k.a. directivity control.
Here is the raw response of the SB19ST-C000-4 on a 5 3/16" wide baffle with 1" round-overs on the side panels and 1/2" round-over on top panel (not pictured in previous photo).
Tweeter is centered, 2 1/4" from top edge.
NB. SPL levels here are not absolute (not measured with 2.83V)
If you use a different baffle shape/dimension/edge treatment, YMMV
Comments
Based on @Gowa 's final drive unit selection, and the suggestions of forum members, my interpretation is that the OP is requesting a wide dispersion tweeter, in the traditional sense. eg. small dome size, wide dispersion in top octaves whilst fulfilling price criteria.
I will discuss this further with @dcibel 's help in a separate thread, at a later date.
Does anyone has experience with this Dayton tweeter?
I have not looked at that little guy at all, but what the heck is that resonance:
No thank you.
InDIYana Event Website
I didn't find one comment on PETT other than someone simply mentioning that it existed in a thread on inexpensive tweeters.
I can't imagine it's that hard to make a cheap and not great 1" soft dome tweeter. What would cause that? I'm tempted to get one and measure it just to see if that is real.
Usually that is a seal issue for the faceplate to front plate transition.
InDIYana Event Website
Sometimes you just need to loosen and tighten the bolts holding the faceplate on. Other times ot is from a poor chamber design. Not uncommon, especially on cheaper tweeters.
My cart is at $93 so I'll add at least one to get free shipping and post measurements.
That could be your "gem" right there a4eaudio....
I rarely (maybe never) seen a DIY design that uses the ScanSpeak D2008 or D2010 20mm dome tweeters. I think these are similar in design to the Hiquphon tweeters. I know the spec sheet for the Scan's rate their power handling with a 2nd order filter at 4 Khz but I think they could go a little lower than that. I currently been testing the Hiquiphon OW2 in a waveguide with a 2.8kHz filter to better match the directivity of the 4-inch SEAS W12CY006 Midrange. I have used the SB21SDC tweeter with a waveguide on a previous design I would say it's better than the Dayton Audio ND20FB I have also used with a waveguide (Yes, I'm addicted to waveguides) but not as special as the Hiquphon. I have a pair of OEM Wavecore TW022WA03 tweeters without a faceplate that I may use on a 2 way speaker in the future. (Yes, I also am a big fan of <1" soft dome tweeter) I also have a pair of Vifa Titanium dome NE19VTT 3/4" tweeters I'm going to use in a design "Someday" I haven't built a design with a metal dome tweeter in over 25years. I have also used the Peerless XT19 and OT19 ring radiator tweeters in designs with waveguides - these are both excellent sounding tweeters, but the dispersion is not as good as a 3/4" dome tweeter. The worst sounding tweeter that I have used is the Peerless OC20, It doesn't sound right. I have asked the guys at Dayton Audio about designing a Reference Series 3/4" dome tweeter, they don't have any plans of doing so. The Dayton audio ND20FB and ND25FN are two of the best value tweeters on the market.
Yeah, apparently their in-house transducer designer is strictly a woofer guy, so Dayton tweeters will generally be of the "off the shelf" Chinese varieties.
I was hoping for a "Signature" series tweeter, but that ain't happening either.
Too bad, I think Dayton is leaving something on the table by not competing directly with Peerless and SB at a tweeter level.
SB Acoustics SB19ST-C000-4 looks good. Has anyone used it in a 2-way crossed around 2.2-2.5k?
Dennis Murphy used those in his latest mini monitors crossed at 2100Hz -
https://philharmonicaudio.com/True-Mini.html
I used them in my Iron Driver entry in 2018. I crossed at 3K but their spec sheet says the power rating was measured crossed at 2800 12db/oct Butterworth so you could probably go lower going 4th order. My entry took 1st place but only one other entry showed up.
It's my go to tweeter for budget builds.
Fantastic looking cabinet and FR sweep, Ron!
(Any clues concerning the round-over construction?).
I remember hearing those, Ron. That's a great sounding speaker - and a clever design too.
The PDF of the build is here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=13rVaY5qNFCtwkroHP6zbyo3SbfDc9wXJ
Ron
I like that, Ron. Nice build🤘🏼
Ron, that was one of the best speakers I heard in Iowa. They had a very holographic, 3D type sound quality. After hearing these, I bought two pair of these tweeters from Meniscus and then picked up another used pair off one of the event swap tables. I'll be using these in a couple future builds.
Ron, that's really nice. Thanks.
Not that I want to steer this away.. but does recessing the midbass with that shape frame seem to make a difference for soundstage/imaging? Wondering if I should bite the bullet and recess mine before I finish up the crossover. Think I may have figured out a way to do it and reduce the chance of screwing it up.
For midbass, flush mount is mostly for visual appearance, you won't see much change in FR. High frequencies from a tweeter however are very much affected, that you may even see some small change in tweeter response from it being next to a surface mount midbass vs flush mount.
Thanks for the compliments. These have been my living room TV speakers since I built them and we have really enjoyed them all these years.
It is a great tweeter. I use it crossed with true acoustic LR2 @ 4KHz.
Like Ron, I also used large roundovers.
The little SB19 is NOT outclassed by the Purifi PTT4.0X:
That's a great looking FR. One of the reasons I chose it was it's price and off axis response.
Here's the response from on-axis, all the way out to 90 degrees, in 10 degree steps. Remember that 90 is perpendicular to the speaker!
The on-axis dip between 5-7KHz is due to a baffle diffraction effect.
I'm with you on this one Ron; wide dispersion and low distortion. And had I used a slightly wider cabinet like yours, and used larger eg. 1.5" round-overs, the diffraction effect would be almost completely eliminated.
For DSPers or tuners who like to equalise everything perfectly flat- well this is one reason why other people often say "you shouldn't massage out every lump and bump in the frequency response"... or "a perfectly flat frequency response doesn't sound right"
Because you shouldn't, and it doesn't.
Look what's happens if you tune it perfectly flat. Look at the frequency responses...
If I had EQed it to be completely flat, I would have been left with peaking in all off axis angles between 5KHz - 7KKHz.
I don't want extra energy at those frequencies, bouncing off walls and coming back a me.
The other major reason I chose it was "what happened to my wallet after buying the PTT4.0X? "
I think I found my puppy. SB Acoustics SB19ST-C000-4
Thanks guys!
@dcibel
Fully agreed.
Actual tweeter performance depends on baffle (or lack thereof- @charlielaub ) size and shape, and position of the tweeter on the baffle. baffle flatness (concave narrows dispersion, convex widens dispersion), edge treatments (round-overs / facets, or lack thereof). In short, by surrounding a transducer with an object you force (or guide) the soundwaves into a certain direction causing a so-called pattern control a.k.a. directivity control.
Here is the raw response of the SB19ST-C000-4 on a 5 3/16" wide baffle with 1" round-overs on the side panels and 1/2" round-over on top panel (not pictured in previous photo).
Tweeter is centered, 2 1/4" from top edge.
NB. SPL levels here are not absolute (not measured with 2.83V)
If you use a different baffle shape/dimension/edge treatment, YMMV
Thanks for all the excellent data/effort, Thanh.
Yes I’ve got a lot of data; most just sitting on my PC.
I will try to post something about tweeter dispersion in a fresh thread