I grabbed the top and bottom of the router and was push and pulling it to see how much it would deflect and on the shark it moved quite a few degrees and the axiom didnt move at all. I was movong it on the long direction it was on the 12 x 25 unit i think but i moved it toward the long section. R-Carpenter said:
What part can you deflect or move by hand? If it's frame itself, it bad. If you can move gantry alone axis then CNC is not powered up, that's normal.
I grabbed the top and bottom of the router and was push and pulling it to see how much it would deflect and on the shark it moved quite a few degrees and the axiom didnt move at all. I was movong it on the long direction it was on the 12 x 25 unit i think but i moved it toward the long section. R-Carpenter said:
What part can you deflect or move by hand? If it's frame itself, it bad. If you can move gantry alone axis then CNC is not powered up, that's normal.
Ahh, got it. Yeah, that's the frame flexing. For engraving and 2.5d work as pictured, that router is probably good enough. If you choose to go with smaller set up now and then build larger machine later, few things will not need to be purchased again. Mach3 for example is licensed to the individual and not to the machine. Same with 3D modeler or Tool Path software. Try to put together a virtual aluminum excursion kit and price out with 80/20. See if it comes out lower than CNCRP. All tho their Z-axis ball screw is custom made.
I think going a route that can start as like a 2x4 or 4x4 but just need to lengthen the 2 rails and extend the bench in the future would be nice. Thanks again.
I'll chime in, sorry if it gets a little long winded. I've programmed and operated 3-axis and 5-axis Routers. Most DIY speaker stuff can be handled easily on 3-axis. To me, it would be very difficult to recover the cost of a CNC only used for DIY speakers. You're not getting into one for much less than 3K, least wise not a decent one. You could attempt to offset some of the cost by doing something like Roman suggested, sign making. But I wouldn't bank on it, that's a tough market already.
Mike220 asked me recently about a CNC and this is what I shared with him. If you know you will be building numerous speakers a year, maybe what it offers would be worth it to you. Don't go into this thinking it's gonna be faster, not the case. It's only faster if you plan on producing in volume, not one-offs. The machine will offer you accuracy and repeatability within .0001" of an inch. It will offer you the flexibility a jasper jig wont, infinite size and shape capabilities. How many times have you liked a certain driver but it was an odd shape? The CNC isn't going to care as long as you can draw it accurately.
I explained to Mike there is another way to look at the machine and this is how I would have to view it to buy one. How many of you own a boat or motorcycle for recreational use? If you put the CNC into the same type of category, it becomes a little easier to swallow. You accept that it will only be used a certain number of times per year, just like the boats or motorcycles. It's an asset that could be sold later if you lose interest just like so many guys do with boats and motorcycles. If you truly look at the cost of a boat vs number of uses per year it would make you sick. But....,sometimes we are willing to ignore those numbers for the fun we get in return.
Here is a basic machine I recommended to Mike. Have not done a lot of research lately so I'm not saying this is the best for the money. It does have a lot of nice features and looks well built. http://www.probotix.com/CNC-ROUTERS/ASTEROID-CNC-ROUTER
Ani mentioned starting small and eventually increasing the size. Not sure it would be worth it Ani. How often would you need something more than 4' long? Besides, longer boards can be cut in stages as long as you incorporate indexes for shifting the board.
Mike220 = me here! Thanks again Kevin. Im just trying to determine if i should get the minimum to get what i want done or spend a good chunk of coin on a super robust machine that can cut decently fast.
I spend between 600-1200 a year in membership fees at the workshop. And I primarily use the CNC and laser engraver, sometimes the 3d printer and in winter. So for me it's a one time cost vs monthly and say 4 - 5 years membership gets me my own machines. I am planning to get my garage heated... So... Anyway a 4x4 is more than enough, but it is easy and that expensive to expand the y axis if there already a 4ft gantry.
Mike220 = me here! Thanks again Kevin. Im just trying to determine if i should get the minimum to get what i want done or spend a good chunk of coin on a super robust machine that can cut decently fast.
Wish I could help with the answer on that Mike. In most cases, we get what we pay for. If you go too cheap, odds are you will find yourself being frustrated with the way the machine performs or how often it breaks. Resale values for a "Robust" machine will probably hold a little higher. I read through this thread pretty fast so I may have missed it, did you have a price in mind you would be comfortable with?
2k would be great and not inflict much, 3k is an absolute max right now but i really dont want to do that much. We expected a bonus this year but i got boned specificially because i switched shifts and although i volounteered for it to benefit the company and they decided to give me an above average review but not above average enough to get a bonus. Im bitter about it if you cant tell
Im willing to down size to 2x4feet or 28x28 cutting area or something but if its below 24" im not certain how useful it will be. Im planning to do some hardwood but primarily plywood and mdf and im actually thinking about using it for some art projects like making black/white copies of stuff to make it like a comic book in some sort of foam or plastic or something to hang on a wall. My wife is a good artist and im thinking we can collaborate.
I spend between 600-1200 a year in membership fees at the workshop. And I primarily use the CNC and laser engraver, sometimes the 3d printer and in winter. So for me it's a one time cost vs monthly and say 4 - 5 years membership gets me my own machines. I am planning to get my garage heated... So... Anyway a 4x4 is more than enough, but it is easy and that expensive to expand the y axis if there already a 4ft gantry.
Holy cow i was wondering what that costs! Yeh in like 2 or 3 years you could get a cnc and 3d printer no problem. If its at your house it can take longer to cut since you dont habe people waiting on it.
Great info roman. Ive been going through the #cnc router tips podcasts on my way to and from work to learn more. Stil not any further along on my decision and if i end up going with cnc router parts ill need to keep saving, mortgage the house or take 401k loan out to buy one lol.
I am not trying to sell you on CNCRP. Not related to them in any way shape or form. But the tutorial is useful and I wish they had it back then I was building my table. What I am trying to stress is that there's a great deal of mechanical aspects to building a table that are basically the same as with other milling machinery. Here's another good instructional vid.
Haha, i know you were just stressing paying $1400 for a machine that can barely what you will need it to be doing might not be worth it and it might be better to save.
Do you have any experience with Joe's cnc? They have 4 models now, super cheap 2006 model thats smaller and the new 4x4 evo seems nice. Not a ton of info without buying the plans to have access to the forum but the cnc router tips podcast raves about them and how easily you can upgrade/expand/reduce size on the machine. Theh say u can use some cnc router parts stuff they made available to the website users. Its alot of labor but the machine looks very capable.
I signed up for the joes cnc forum. Checking it out and browsing briefing shows theres a ton of info on there very specific to diy cnc building. It will be worth it in the long run even if its just for learning.
Found another diy cnc kits One is Step craft which is a german company that came here. This one has the best options for adding a laser and 3d printer to i but is actually quite pricey with the spindle option.
The other is garage worx it comes in sizes 18x24 24x36 and 48x48
http://www.garageworxcnc.com/36--x-24--garageworx-cnc.html for example approx about $2000 for machine, electronics and stepper motors, lead screws and mach 3. not too bad since its lead screw and should be fairly stiff being made out of all steel.
The Joe's cnc is looking like a clear winner for cost, size, speed, robustness it's a 4x4 cutting area machine for what is appearing like 3000-4000 and a good amount of labor but all off the shelf type materials aside from the 3/4" aluminum plates.
I found some guys close by with a few joes cncs and a dave gatton cnc. I hope to go see one in person soon. The wife is actually on board with getting one. The budget keeps increasing unfortunately.
After reading this thread I saw a kickstarter about a cnc router called Maslow CNC. A very different idea. I wonder if it could work. My quess is that it would have to go very slow since gravity is holding it in place... Any thoughts on this?
I still dont understand how that thing plunges only from the weight of it. Im thinking it can only cut out shapes no 3d or recesses but i could be wrong.
Ive almost narrowed down what cnc im gonna get its the joes evo or cnc router parts. The budget has gotten out of control but im not gonna buy a cheap cnc and have to sell it and upgrade in a year or two. Ill do a bunch of custom trinkets for people to recover the cost. Ik looking for a 4x4 machine. If it goes well and i recoup my money ill upgrade to 4x8 if needed. 4x4 seems like it should tackle most jobs for me.
Comments
If you choose to go with smaller set up now and then build larger machine later, few things will not need to be purchased again. Mach3 for example is licensed to the individual and not to the machine. Same with 3D modeler or Tool Path software.
Try to put together a virtual aluminum excursion kit and price out with 80/20. See if it comes out lower than CNCRP. All tho their Z-axis ball screw is custom made.
It's still a work in progress, but here is a recent photo.
Mike220 asked me recently about a CNC and this is what I shared with him. If you know you will be building numerous speakers a year, maybe what it offers would be worth it to you. Don't go into this thinking it's gonna be faster, not the case. It's only faster if you plan on producing in volume, not one-offs. The machine will offer you accuracy and repeatability within .0001" of an inch. It will offer you the flexibility a jasper jig wont, infinite size and shape capabilities. How many times have you liked a certain driver but it was an odd shape? The CNC isn't going to care as long as you can draw it accurately.
I explained to Mike there is another way to look at the machine and this is how I would have to view it to buy one. How many of you own a boat or motorcycle for recreational use? If you put the CNC into the same type of category, it becomes a little easier to swallow. You accept that it will only be used a certain number of times per year, just like the boats or motorcycles. It's an asset that could be sold later if you lose interest just like so many guys do with boats and motorcycles. If you truly look at the cost of a boat vs number of uses per year it would make you sick. But....,sometimes we are willing to ignore those numbers for the fun we get in return.
Here is a basic machine I recommended to Mike. Have not done a lot of research lately so I'm not saying this is the best for the money. It does have a lot of nice features and looks well built. http://www.probotix.com/CNC-ROUTERS/ASTEROID-CNC-ROUTER
Ani mentioned starting small and eventually increasing the size. Not sure it would be worth it Ani. How often would you need something more than 4' long? Besides, longer boards can be cut in stages as long as you incorporate indexes for shifting the board.
Wish I could help with the answer on that Mike. In most cases, we get what we pay for. If you go too cheap, odds are you will find yourself being frustrated with the way the machine performs or how often it breaks. Resale values for a "Robust" machine will probably hold a little higher. I read through this thread pretty fast so I may have missed it, did you have a price in mind you would be comfortable with?
Im willing to down size to 2x4feet or 28x28 cutting area or something but if its below 24" im not certain how useful it will be. Im planning to do some hardwood but primarily plywood and mdf and im actually thinking about using it for some art projects like making black/white copies of stuff to make it like a comic book in some sort of foam or plastic or something to hang on a wall. My wife is a good artist and im thinking we can collaborate.
What I am trying to stress is that there's a great deal of mechanical aspects to building a table that are basically the same as with other milling machinery.
Here's another good instructional vid.
Do you have any experience with Joe's cnc? They have 4 models now, super cheap 2006 model thats smaller and the new 4x4 evo seems nice. Not a ton of info without buying the plans to have access to the forum but the cnc router tips podcast raves about them and how easily you can upgrade/expand/reduce size on the machine. Theh say u can use some cnc router parts stuff they made available to the website users. Its alot of labor but the machine looks very capable.
http://joescnc.com/the-machines/evolution-page
The other is garage worx it comes in sizes 18x24 24x36 and 48x48
http://www.garageworxcnc.com/36--x-24--garageworx-cnc.html for example approx about $2000
for machine, electronics and stepper motors, lead screws and mach 3. not too bad since its lead screw and should be fairly stiff being made out of all steel.
The Joe's cnc is looking like a clear winner for cost, size, speed, robustness it's a 4x4 cutting area machine for what is appearing like 3000-4000 and a good amount of labor but all off the shelf type materials aside from the 3/4" aluminum plates.
Ive almost narrowed down what cnc im gonna get its the joes evo or cnc router parts. The budget has gotten out of control but im not gonna buy a cheap cnc and have to sell it and upgrade in a year or two. Ill do a bunch of custom trinkets for people to recover the cost. Ik looking for a 4x4 machine. If it goes well and i recoup my money ill upgrade to 4x8 if needed. 4x4 seems like it should tackle most jobs for me.