An Open Discussion of Future Iowa DIY formats

JasonP

On the way back from Iowa DIY 2017, I had a short discussion with Bryan about possibly changing up the format of future Iowa DIY events. Here are my thoughts, and I'd love feedback on it.

One of the issues I feel we face as a community is the ever increasing quality of drivers in the hobby. As they get better and better, it is harder and harder to discern any difference. I feel one of the ways we can expose the true quality of drivers is higher SPL. However, small speakers suffer increasingly in high SPL environments.We already experience this quite a bit. At several recent events we've had to "dial back" small speakers from distortion at higher SPLs. This doesn't help anyone, and prevents the designer from really showing off the design in any valid capacity (IMO).

So if we can't maintain a given SPL for all designs, the intent being to level and playing field because louder sounds better by nature, what if we did categories? Designers themselves can choose the category of their speaker, and we can set an SPL for each that will be challenging enough to reveal driver differences without over-driving the parts. I think this is a great solution and want your feedback. Is this bad? If not, how many categories, 2? 3? We can talk specific SPL later.

Obviously I'd group all category entries to play back to back. All "compact" first, all "standard" next.

Thoughts?

PWRRYD

Sounds like a good idea to me.  This would also allow for two or three different house tracks, one for each speaker group.  Don't get me wrong, you guys do an excellent job putting together the house track.  But after about the 10th demo it's hard to focus.  Maybe that's just me.

Ed_Perkins

I personally wouldn't want the SPL levels to be raised, mostly because of listener burnout at an all day event.  I like the idea of different categories, but so I can listen to similar sized (capable) speakers together.  I could see lowering the SPL level by 5 or 6 dB for the smaller speakers using the same house track.   I think that would still be loud enough, especially in Harris hall.  By the way, what was the standard dB level this year, 85 dB?

I also think the smaller differences between speakers have more to do with design choices (crossover & cabinet) than the drivers themselves.  I was really surprised at how well Bill's 40 year old large Advents sounded.  

JasonP

Ed, we did 82db at about 10 feet (if I had to guess, front row).

jhollander

Categories is a good idea but you are going down the path of comparing speakers head to head.

Maybe you want to come to grips about comparing/ judging speakers first.

Spitballing... 

One category could be "comparing" with only the house track and speakers back to back.

One category not comparing with only the designer's track

Wolf

I'm with John on this one. It almost seems when you start to segregate like this that more comparison will happen, and a competition style will take the reigns ensuing.

I'm also with Ed- louder is not good for those critically listening all day long. It makes the end of the day a wash in terms of comparison, whether you're keeping track or not. Not to make comparisons to other events, but at MWAF, I believe 75-80dB is the range measured where the judges sit, and that's about 10' or so. The old format of the Iowa event allowed the exhibitor to adjust the level of his own tracks after the house portion had played. (Caveat- this can lead to Pete moshing by himself, and Paul K. holding his head down with his fingers in his ears if Paul Carmody gets ahold of some Deftones tracks.) This gives the designer a chance to show off a smidge if deemed required.

I haven't been since 2010, but I still think about going.

PSchumacher

Big speakers are made for big SPL.  Otherwise, why bother with big?  That said, not every track needs to be at high SPL.

Have a track or three intended just for the big guys.  A nice orchestral track with a big crescendo, some thumping electronica, and a boisterous rock piece just to see what the capabilities of the larger designs have to contribute.

I only turn up my speakers about 10% of the time.  Most of the time, I listen at very sane levels that allow me to go for hours at a time.  But on occasion, I literally want to feel the music, but I can only do that for about 10 minutes before I have to leave the room, turn everything off, and recover for about 20 minutes.

kennyk

What part of the day are you more sensitive to loud. Play the smaller, less efficient speakers then. Save those big Mama's for the less sensitive times.

MartyH

Since we're spitballing let me ask a question: Do we really need all that space in the Harris Center?  Turnout has been about 40 people and seems to be steady at that number, so maybe a smaller venue would be more appropriate.  Grinnell is a wonderful location, but maybe there's a more appropriate facility on campus designed for 50-100 vs the 400 seat facility we're in now. 

Reasons to consider moving:

  ~Less expense to rent the facility,
  ~Smaller hall means we don't 'lose' the smaller speakers in the room,
  ~A more 'homey' feel to the event, and
  ~a more true-to-real-life listening experience
 
If you really want to start a conversation, how about a separate event for smaller driver design (say 4.5" and under) at the hotel?

Please remember I am not advocating for these changes, just offering them for conversations sake.

In the words of Linda Richman 'Discuss amongst yourselves...'

  

Tom_S

I had the same thought while driving home. It's nice that the Harris Center is acoustically treated, comfortable, and large enough that we're not bumping into each other at every turn. But the bass bloat in such a large venue is an unfortunate consequence and a detriment to many larger speakers. My ears did not really hear Pete's MTM, as it was the first up on the block. It took a while for my brain to get acclimated to the room boom.

ani_101

I always have a few blankets to counter room effects, maybe pile on a few more.... Treat the bare hotel rooms..
 How about last year's venue, I think it was smaller and still good acoustically? 
But however big the room, Kenny's travel sized speakers have not once given up the ghost, something to be said about small speakers.

brek81

Is the speaking hall that was well (last year) treated less expensive?  

Bryan@MAC

brek81 said:

Is the speaking hall that was well (last year) treated less expensive?  

That's a good question.  Since Doug used to take care of that, I have no idea what anything costs other than what we paid for the Harris Center last weekend.  We certainly can explore using the JRC space again.

hifiside

My 2 penny's here. Ever tried classes like
0"-4", 5"-7", 8"- up.

kennyk

I'm not familiar with the college, but if they promote music, there maybe practice rooms that may fit the bill.

PWRRYD

kennyk said:

I'm not familiar with the college, but if they promote music, there maybe practice rooms that may fit the bill.

Ding ding ding ding ding!  I love the Harris Center.... but none of my speakers sound the same at home.

ani_101

All my speakers sound way better at any of the venues than at home.

kennyk

PWRRYD said:

kennyk said:

I'm not familiar with the college, but if they promote music, there maybe practice rooms that may fit the bill.

Ding ding ding ding ding!  I love the Harris Center.... but none of my speakers sound the same at home.

I'm familiar with the Harris Center, but practice rooms are used for musical students. There maybe an adequate size room for an event.

4thtry

kennyk said:

PWRRYD said:

kennyk said:

I'm not familiar with the college, but if they promote music, there maybe practice rooms that may fit the bill.

Ding ding ding ding ding!  I love the Harris Center.... but none of my speakers sound the same at home.

I'm familiar with the Harris Center, but practice rooms are used for musical students. There maybe an adequate size room for an event.

What about the small room across the hall at the JRC center, where Greg demo'd his floor standing DSP speakers?  That was large enough for about 40 visitors.

MartyH

4thtry said:

kennyk said:

PWRRYD said:

kennyk said:

I'm not familiar with the college, but if they promote music, there maybe practice rooms that may fit the bill.

Ding ding ding ding ding!  I love the Harris Center.... but none of my speakers sound the same at home.

I'm familiar with the Harris Center, but practice rooms are used for musical students. There maybe an adequate size room for an event.

What about the small room across the hall at the JRC center, where Greg demo'd his floor standing DSP speakers?  That was large enough for about 40 visitors.

Good call!