This was measured T/S after a break-in flexing cone by hand until the spider stopped "crackling". Room temperature. Modeling done with default settings in WinISD and of course the added resistance. Going lower on the series resistance, maybe if we go with a 15awg coil when the time comes, raises the low end slightly - probably not enough to be audible since the F3 on the sealed will still be lower than most musical peaks.
This design has serious potential. Hope I don't fuck up the crossover.
@Nicholas_23 said:
For those of you that heard the Philharmonic in Iowa , what did you think of that tweeter?
I thought they were quite good. I have 10-70D RAAL's in my main system and have been a fan since the first time I heard a system with RAAL's in Chicago.
I thought the RAAL tweeters sounded very nice. I was expecting much better bass from those particular woofers. The mids were way too forward for my taste but I don't listen to orchestral music or a girl and a guitar music.
The finish on the Philharmonics was gorgeous, but I also thought they were bright/forward tonally. Thinking back on it, I wonder if a woofer was wired out of phase or if the speakers were hooked up out of phase and we were just getting a lot of bass cancellation. I've been there and done that more often than I'd care to admit.
Keep an open mind, but don't let your brain fall out.
Yeah, if you look at the horizontal contour plot over at Erin's Audio Corner, it seems to show the issue. His comments suggested the same.
Having used that mid in the Racetrack 3-ways, I have experienced the challenge in trying to keep the in-room mids and highs from becoming too much due to said dispersion, but I'm a little surprised Dennis missed on that. Maybe his high frequency sensitivity isn't what it used to be.
Keep an open mind, but don't let your brain fall out.
I don't know, but I'm guessing that Dennis must like that balance, because there were three of his designs in Iowa and for me all had a similar balance. It's just a matter of taste. Not wrong or right.
Thanks for the discussion, guys. I've got some of those BMRs, and I will be very careful using them.
The normalized horizontal off axis response reminds me of tuning a 3 way some years ago with a Vifa TC9 mid rear mounted in a very shallow waveguide. The speaker off axis had a similar graph with some dark red on the top end of the TC9. The speaker sounded great on a lot of source material, but a little shouty on some cuts. After a few weeks, I ripped the TC9s out and put in a 4 inch HDS mid that had a smooth off axis. No more shouty. Sort of surprised that Dennis left these as is.
But Chahly - Stahkist don't want speakers that look good, Stahkist wants speakers that sound good!
I like the BMR better than the TC9 but I use it for wide dispersion as part of a 3-way center channel. Dennis bookshelf BMR is nice but the first time I heard it thought immediately that it needs a subwoofer for such a large bookshelf . His BMR tower to me is really something special. I like his voicing in the mids, and the 8” revelator with Paul K. Transmission line design makes it very, very different than the smaller one. But tastes are different
Nick and I both kind of like the basic black cabinet look - with the baffle being dominated by the drivers. A high driver to baffle ratio in other words.
These have no name yet, might have to have a brainstorm session with Nick and the wife to come up with something. These will be too good not to have a fun name.
Comments
This was measured T/S after a break-in flexing cone by hand until the spider stopped "crackling". Room temperature. Modeling done with default settings in WinISD and of course the added resistance. Going lower on the series resistance, maybe if we go with a 15awg coil when the time comes, raises the low end slightly - probably not enough to be audible since the F3 on the sealed will still be lower than most musical peaks.
This design has serious potential. Hope I don't fuck up the crossover.
Are the sides tapered back?
No, that is just an illusion.
Is that the same RAAL tweeter that was in the Dennis Murphy designed 3 ways in Iowa?
Yeppers.
For those of you that heard the Philharmonic in Iowa , what did you think of that tweeter?
Yeah, I'd like to hear people's thoughts on them as a whole.
I thought they were quite good. I have 10-70D RAAL's in my main system and have been a fan since the first time I heard a system with RAAL's in Chicago.
https://projectgallery.parts-express.com/home-audio-video/cherry-%cf%80s/
Ron
I thought the RAAL tweeters sounded very nice. I was expecting much better bass from those particular woofers. The mids were way too forward for my taste but I don't listen to orchestral music or a girl and a guitar music.
The finish on the Philharmonics was gorgeous, but I also thought they were bright/forward tonally. Thinking back on it, I wonder if a woofer was wired out of phase or if the speakers were hooked up out of phase and we were just getting a lot of bass cancellation. I've been there and done that more often than I'd care to admit.
Sehlin Sound Solutions
Echo the forward nature, but I doubt they were out of phase - I suspect the ultra-wide dispersion of the little mid contributed.
Tweeter sounded fine.
Yeah, if you look at the horizontal contour plot over at Erin's Audio Corner, it seems to show the issue. His comments suggested the same.
Having used that mid in the Racetrack 3-ways, I have experienced the challenge in trying to keep the in-room mids and highs from becoming too much due to said dispersion, but I'm a little surprised Dennis missed on that. Maybe his high frequency sensitivity isn't what it used to be.
Sehlin Sound Solutions
I don't know, but I'm guessing that Dennis must like that balance, because there were three of his designs in Iowa and for me all had a similar balance. It's just a matter of taste. Not wrong or right.
Thanks for the discussion, guys. I've got some of those BMRs, and I will be very careful using them.
The normalized horizontal off axis response reminds me of tuning a 3 way some years ago with a Vifa TC9 mid rear mounted in a very shallow waveguide. The speaker off axis had a similar graph with some dark red on the top end of the TC9. The speaker sounded great on a lot of source material, but a little shouty on some cuts. After a few weeks, I ripped the TC9s out and put in a 4 inch HDS mid that had a smooth off axis. No more shouty. Sort of surprised that Dennis left these as is.
I was told ages ago that Dennis plays violin, and he likes a rise in the top octave. It is just his taste in spectral balance.
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I like the BMR better than the TC9 but I use it for wide dispersion as part of a 3-way center channel. Dennis bookshelf BMR is nice but the first time I heard it thought immediately that it needs a subwoofer for such a large bookshelf . His BMR tower to me is really something special. I like his voicing in the mids, and the 8” revelator with Paul K. Transmission line design makes it very, very different than the smaller one. But tastes are different
Bottom of cabs are curing. Should have these voiced by mid January. Looking forward to this one. Two in the queue before it however.
Nick and I both kind of like the basic black cabinet look - with the baffle being dominated by the drivers. A high driver to baffle ratio in other words.
These have no name yet, might have to have a brainstorm session with Nick and the wife to come up with something. These will be too good not to have a fun name.
P.S. Brad does absolute spot on work.
What paint was that?
I'm not sure, Brad might chime in.
The bottoms are Total coat. The rest is Upol raptor bedliner reduced and spray from 3m HVLP with 1.8mm tip.
That is like my Gormachos on steriods!
Man, what an ugly woofer. 😬
Leave Nick out of this!
Wow - that's the way to high-fidelity!
Yeah, I have nothing to do with this build.
I have one build in queue after the current TMWW and I will get started on this. Expect progress come late December-mid January.
I thought that RAAL was only for OEM. How did you snag that?