@Eggguy said:
I do appreciate this part of the INDiyana event, even though I am not quite up to it yet
Many ways to do this. Can go as simple or complex as you want. I tend to initially aspire for complicated, but I quickly find the elegance of simplicity is more my jam. So mine will probably not be a particularly "exciting" build.
If I were using a PS180 or PS220 as my widebander, this would work. But I am trying to use a PS95-8 in my project and the subchamber will be way too small to fit a PR onto the sides of the subchamber. But I think I have a solution. Menards plumbing department to the rescue!
You're going to port your HF driver?
Yes. Thinking of maybe going dual chamber reflex, for greater cone control over a wider band of low frequencies. Or maybe triple chamber reflex, if that is possible. I need to build another test box and start taking NF cone and port measurements. Maybe use flexible hose, as Steve suggested. I can also model this in the Leonard Audio Transmission line program, without stuffing of any kind, to see what might work. This program lets you create as many branches as you want, linked by ports of various lengths and ID's.
John, are you going to build a frugal horn type system?
I know that is your perspective, John, but I don't see the premise as hampered at all. I see it as a new trajectory to travel, and one giving more care to likely being more successful than a single driver alone at that.
To me, a project such as this will probably be somewhat lacking in the quality of "air" at the highest frequencies. However, it has the potential to sound much more coherent in the 1-10kHz region, due to the fact that the same driver cone material is being used to cover the entire range. To me, the challenge will be to find the right driver and then make it work within the rules.
Every speaker is a compromise. This theme is just forcing us to accept a different set of compromises.
I've never seen drivers as perfect anyway. There are faults in ALL of them. Isn't the essence of that initial fact a known hindrance in all drivers? With that in mind, I suppose 'hampered' should be applied to all designs, not just those seen as challenges.
I usually am a glass half full kinda fellow, and skeptically see most of a line of thinking on a pending project as "possible", whether the goal or idea are met with positive results or not. If results are not as expected or preferred, a pivot or change can still save the endgame and solve the issues.
I'm assuming the or was intentional instead of and? Meaning a cap and resistor are ok for contouring? Also it would be ok to be on the widebander only? or must be ahead of both?
I'm hoping my widebander could be run WFO. But making sure what options I have if the first listen doesn't work out.
The circuit is drawn so the CR would affect both the wideband and the woofer; on purpose. This shown to be an LCR, LR, or CR. If you contour, do it out front to affect both. This is why the woofer is intended to be cascaded from after the wideband or after the contour. Note the stated R1 is not allowed to be exceedingly large in value, so as to not become a highpass with only C1 and R1.
I have several ideas and drivers in my stockpile that could work pretty well. I'm hoping to actually get something built for InDIYana this time around... The challenge is good driver selection and enclosure design, IMHO.
I don't want to speak for anyone, but it's my guess that the "compromised" aspect is the lack of a high pass on the full range driver. I'm not competing, but that is what I get from the posts above.
So exciters are or are not allowed? Seems they shouldn’t be as that doesn’t seem to be the spirit of the theme, where a conventional fr driver would be the constant.
Also, whizzer cones allowed? If yes then are they limited to drivers made with one, or can it be added?
I guess if you want to mod drivers, go for it. Home built from the ground up? Not this time.
I don't think exciters represent the idea here very well, maybe some other time in a different theme.
The answer to my question below is probably "allowed" but I thought I'd check just to be sure. One of the challenges of this theme appears to be a "stress test" type of "trade off" between small and large diameter wideband drivers. Hence the 1.5way requirement. If we want to use a smaller diameter driver, with better high frequency performance, then the driver must be able to handle the power.
So my question is this: Are fast acting fuses allowed on the schematic? I'm thinking of using my pair of Tang Band W3-1797S 3" drivers as my widebanders. They just barely meet the 90mm minimum flange diameter requirement. Power handling will be borderline, so I'd like to put either a 1/2 amp or a 3/4 amp fast acting fuse in series for protection. This should be OK since a fuse is not a high pass filter.
So how can you confirm this "Insertion point of 0.5 woofer section must occur below 1.0kHz"? I'm using a single inductor so there's huge overlap. Seems like this is very subjective.
Due to how the widerange should be operating, it just makes sense to make this stipulation to start the rolloff no higher than 1k. I don't care what slope you use.
So if using a smaller sealed widebander along with a different woofer... there will be an output loss below where the widebander drops out. I wonder how well a peaky high Q woofer slope could fill that in.
Comments
Many ways to do this. Can go as simple or complex as you want. I tend to initially aspire for complicated, but I quickly find the elegance of simplicity is more my jam. So mine will probably not be a particularly "exciting" build.
Yes. Thinking of maybe going dual chamber reflex, for greater cone control over a wider band of low frequencies. Or maybe triple chamber reflex, if that is possible. I need to build another test box and start taking NF cone and port measurements. Maybe use flexible hose, as Steve suggested. I can also model this in the Leonard Audio Transmission line program, without stuffing of any kind, to see what might work. This program lets you create as many branches as you want, linked by ports of various lengths and ID's.
John, are you going to build a frugal horn type system?
No frugal horn. I thought maybe MEH but it's a lot of time to build something inherently compromised. I have a few ideas. Maybe something like these.
I know that is your perspective, John, but I don't see the premise as hampered at all. I see it as a new trajectory to travel, and one giving more care to likely being more successful than a single driver alone at that.
InDIYana Event Website
You "don't see the premise as hampered at all"? Um ok! I'm out.
To me, a project such as this will probably be somewhat lacking in the quality of "air" at the highest frequencies. However, it has the potential to sound much more coherent in the 1-10kHz region, due to the fact that the same driver cone material is being used to cover the entire range. To me, the challenge will be to find the right driver and then make it work within the rules.
Every speaker is a compromise. This theme is just forcing us to accept a different set of compromises.
I really feel a lot of designs in this direction will sound very good, and likely better than single driver systems.
InDIYana Event Website
A "challenge" is the essence of an imperfect situation.
I've never seen drivers as perfect anyway. There are faults in ALL of them. Isn't the essence of that initial fact a known hindrance in all drivers? With that in mind, I suppose 'hampered' should be applied to all designs, not just those seen as challenges.
I usually am a glass half full kinda fellow, and skeptically see most of a line of thinking on a pending project as "possible", whether the goal or idea are met with positive results or not. If results are not as expected or preferred, a pivot or change can still save the endgame and solve the issues.
InDIYana Event Website
"C1 cannot be alone without R1 or L1"
I'm assuming the or was intentional instead of and? Meaning a cap and resistor are ok for contouring? Also it would be ok to be on the widebander only? or must be ahead of both?
I'm hoping my widebander could be run WFO. But making sure what options I have if the first listen doesn't work out.
The circuit is drawn so the CR would affect both the wideband and the woofer; on purpose. This shown to be an LCR, LR, or CR. If you contour, do it out front to affect both. This is why the woofer is intended to be cascaded from after the wideband or after the contour. Note the stated R1 is not allowed to be exceedingly large in value, so as to not become a highpass with only C1 and R1.
I am clueless to WFO??? meaning....
InDIYana Event Website
Wide F'n Open = WFO
Ouch nm.. That probably bumps up the capacitence ($) required due to the reduced impedance.
Indeed it would.
InDIYana Event Website
I have several ideas and drivers in my stockpile that could work pretty well. I'm hoping to actually get something built for InDIYana this time around... The challenge is good driver selection and enclosure design, IMHO.
I don't want to speak for anyone, but it's my guess that the "compromised" aspect is the lack of a high pass on the full range driver. I'm not competing, but that is what I get from the posts above.
Look for a super high Fs wideband?
On your generic layout, is that connection left of J1 not supposed to be there?
That is the J1 jumper, and it is optional depending on what you need to do.
InDIYana Event Website
So exciters are or are not allowed? Seems they shouldn’t be as that doesn’t seem to be the spirit of the theme, where a conventional fr driver would be the constant.
Also, whizzer cones allowed? If yes then are they limited to drivers made with one, or can it be added?
Any (other) driver mods allowed?
DIY drivers allowed or commercial only?
Not sure as to issue with exciters as a full ranger?
But in any event, allowing mods to drivers could add some interesting concepts with this group.
I guess if you want to mod drivers, go for it. Home built from the ground up? Not this time.
I don't think exciters represent the idea here very well, maybe some other time in a different theme.
InDIYana Event Website
The answer to my question below is probably "allowed" but I thought I'd check just to be sure. One of the challenges of this theme appears to be a "stress test" type of "trade off" between small and large diameter wideband drivers. Hence the 1.5way requirement. If we want to use a smaller diameter driver, with better high frequency performance, then the driver must be able to handle the power.
So my question is this: Are fast acting fuses allowed on the schematic? I'm thinking of using my pair of Tang Band W3-1797S 3" drivers as my widebanders. They just barely meet the 90mm minimum flange diameter requirement. Power handling will be borderline, so I'd like to put either a 1/2 amp or a 3/4 amp fast acting fuse in series for protection. This should be OK since a fuse is not a high pass filter.
https://www.parts-express.com/Tang-Band-W3-1797S-3-Neodymium-Midrange-Driver-264-888?quantity=1
IMO It isn't an active component.. merely a very delicate wire.
What about an incandescent light bulb as a sort of soft fuse to bleed more power as voltage goes up without totally cutting out?
I feel both of those should be allowed, fuses and bulbs. Pick your tradeoffs!
InDIYana Event Website
So how can you confirm this "Insertion point of 0.5 woofer section must occur below 1.0kHz"? I'm using a single inductor so there's huge overlap. Seems like this is very subjective.
Due to how the widerange should be operating, it just makes sense to make this stipulation to start the rolloff no higher than 1k. I don't care what slope you use.
InDIYana Event Website
So if using a smaller sealed widebander along with a different woofer... there will be an output loss below where the widebander drops out. I wonder how well a peaky high Q woofer slope could fill that in.
I think ported high Q woofer can be OK. I tend to value the overlap and breakup over the bass trough and peak.
This is why padding of the wideband is allowed, because there could be a mismatch in sensitivities.
InDIYana Event Website