Those were just beautiful, and Adam is really good at what he does. I still say using the aluminum as conductors would have hidden wires and made it less conspicuous- though already hidden quite well.
Please elaborate! Its ok to talk about the attributes you like about them. I am interested, anyway...
Hi Mike,
Sorry, I somehow missed answering your question. Honestly I'm not very good at eloquent audiophile terms, but I will try to explain what I hear.
There is just something more 3 dimensional, more realistic, more depth. I'll call it presences. But not fake like a sound processor that adds some delay or reverb to make a room sound 10 times larger.
I get a similar experience from my Morel dome midranges in my 3 way Gormachos, but less so.
I'm not saying OB is superior to everything else in every way. That would be crazy. But I do really like how my simple and small hybrid OB project sounds and it drives me to build bigger and better hybrid speakers.
Please elaborate! Its ok to talk about the attributes you like about them. I am interested, anyway...
Hi Mike,
Sorry, I somehow missed answering your question. Honestly I'm not very good at eloquent audiophile terms, but I will try to explain what I hear.
There is just something more 3 dimensional, more realistic, more depth. I'll call it presences. But not fake like a sound processor that adds some delay or reverb to make a room sound 10 times larger.
I get a similar experience from my Morel dome midranges in my 3 way Gormachos, but less so.
I'm not saying OB is superior to everything else in every way. That would be crazy. But I do really like how my simple and small hybrid OB project sounds and it drives me to build bigger and better hybrid speakers.
Thaks Craig, It is possible to discuss the qualitative for the sake of observation and perception WITHOUT the audiophool crap.
That input is very meaningful. I have found a similar liking in the Vegateons. The U-baffle made it interesting, and seemed to add depth and dimension to the overall sound stage. I was expecting it all at expense of 'pinpoint' accuracy in the sound stage, as this is what I typically have heard from open rare wave deaigns, but it is not.
Thanks. Helps fit some puzzle peices together and guide where to go thinking forward.
The Morel feedback helps too! I am picking up my 4-way cabinets from Roman on Sunday and I am using the EM1308 2" dome mid.
Curious what you think about 1308 morel. Can you give any more details on this build? Maybe in a different post ? I'm really not trying to derail this thread.
Curious what you think about 1308 morel. Can you give any more details on this build? Maybe in a different post ? I'm really not trying to derail this thread.
Its the design that has been over 20 years in the making for me. Dual 10" 4-way.
Ill share measurements and info around the 1308 as it devlopes.
They are ultimately as much Roman's as mine. His CnC/hand made hybrid work on the tapered cabinets with a slanted baffle are just as complex with wacky coumpound cuts, and insane bracing scheme, and crazy facets I challanged him to do.
This lead to the name 'Diomede', after the islands that sit in the bering straight (Not the Greek myth) dead between the US and Russia, strattling the international timeline. I am 1/2 Russian and Roman, well, we all know him. So this is really a design and build that is taking the world to come together...(At least in my heart).
No more hijacking. More to come. I may start a thread once I get the 175lb (ish) cabinets home.....
I did a little Unibox modeling at lunch and those very affordable Peerless SLS 10's look nice in ~1.5 ft^3 sealed and filled (not tightly stuffed) with FG or rockwool.
On a side note: does anyone pay much attention to the step response? These model excellently in that regard compared to just about every bass reflex design I've modeled. How audible is that?
I did a little Unibox modeling at lunch and those very affordable Peerless SLS 10's look nice in ~1.5 ft^3 sealed and filled (not tightly stuffed) with FG or rockwool.
On a side note: does anyone pay much attention to the step response? These model excellently in that regard compared to just about every bass reflex design I've modeled. How audible is that?
Hey Craig, Step response is one of those things in woofers written off as non-audible, yet many agree sealed sounds better than reflex.
The improved step reaponse is in relationship to the better group delay. Since you are targeting what essentely is a non-resonant system in a sealed enclosure, and the inherent nature of a resinator system (reflex, TL, and PR is the worst in this regard) will have an acoustically reactive element, there will always be associated group delay, and worse step response.
The trade off is a good deal less acoustic power capabiliy sealed which means for louder, deeper bass a suprising amount of VC heating and thermal compression come into play. This is why if the woofer is not carefully selected for a sealed application, after a short listen, even at moderate volumes, they can sound tilted "up" and have less apparent bass than expected.
Collums did some neat testing around this and power compression can kick in in GOOD woofers with as little as 10wRMS program.
You should have zero issues with the SLS in this regard, but it is iteresting and if you plan on cranking them more often than not, it may be a concideration.
Thanks for responding Mike. I think in this design the power limiting factor may be the OB mid playing down to a couple hundred Hertz. I don't listen super loud and my listening room (our family room) isn't huge.
Thanks for responding Mike. I think in this design the power limiting factor may be the OB mid playing down to a couple hundred Hertz. I don't listen super loud and my listening room (our family room) isn't huge.
Sounds like a great Project. I do wish they made more woofers specifically for sealed enclosures. More so Acoustic Suspension. Looking forward to see how this one plays out!
I did a design about 4 or 5 years ago and demo'd them in DIY Chicago (the only year there wasn't a DIY Iowa). It was a WMTM with the woofers being Circa '92 Audio Concept, 12 inch, dual voice coil, paper coned subwoofers, in 70 liter bass bins with sealed, stuffed, and variovent enclosures. Man those babies had nice natural bass!!!!
If you were a trooper and flew out to corn land a couple tjmes a year like Kenny does you could here them
I am going to try and make it out to an event next spring/summer! It will be nce to meet everyone face to face after yeas of getti g to know......y'all
I did a little Unibox modeling at lunch and those very affordable Peerless SLS 10's look nice in ~1.5 ft^3 sealed and filled (not tightly stuffed) with FG or rockwool.
On a side note: does anyone pay much attention to the step response? These model excellently in that regard compared to just about every bass reflex design I've modeled. How audible is that?
Collums did some neat testing around this and power compression can kick in in GOOD woofers with as little as 10wRMS program.
You should have zero issues with the SLS in this regard, but it is iteresting and if you plan on cranking them more often than not, it may be a concideration.
I have always suspected this about power compression. Of course when I posted about it it was shunned lol, and I of course never had proof other than what I have heard with my own ears. Also as you said issues with the sls and power compression shouldn't be a problem. I have a pair and the voice coil is well ventilated and very open to fresh air under the spider. Its price does not resemble its quality if you can get over the stamped steel frame.
I did a little Unibox modeling at lunch and those very affordable Peerless SLS 10's look nice in ~1.5 ft^3 sealed and filled (not tightly stuffed) with FG or rockwool.
On a side note: does anyone pay much attention to the step response? These model excellently in that regard compared to just about every bass reflex design I've modeled. How audible is that?
Collums did some neat testing around this and power compression can kick in in GOOD woofers with as little as 10wRMS program.
You should have zero issues with the SLS in this regard, but it is iteresting and if you plan on cranking them more often than not, it may be a concideration.
I have always suspected this about power compression. Of course when I posted about it it was shunned lol, and I of course never had proof other than what I have heard with my own ears. Also as you said issues with the sls and power compression shouldn't be a problem. I have a pair and the voice coil is well ventilated and very open to fresh air under the spider. Its price does not resemble its quality if you can get over the stamped steel frame.
They know how to make a woofer. Stamped steel or not! Even then, treat the frame and they are great for the money.
There is a distinct audible effect, related to not just the decrease in output, but the shift in tuning caused by the increase in VC resistance and flux differences that occur when the coil gets hot...Even if not releasing its smoke.
Comments
InDIYana Event Website
InDIYana Event Website
InDIYana Event Website
They are vury nice!
(double negative meaning "yah, I hear ya")
Next weekend will be an inspiration to build more speakers and its getting too late in the year for the car.
Sorry, I somehow missed answering your question. Honestly I'm not very good at eloquent audiophile terms, but I will try to explain what I hear.
There is just something more 3 dimensional, more realistic, more depth. I'll call it presences. But not fake like a sound processor that adds some delay or reverb to make a room sound 10 times larger.
I get a similar experience from my Morel dome midranges in my 3 way Gormachos, but less so.
I'm not saying OB is superior to everything else in every way. That would be crazy. But I do really like how my simple and small hybrid OB project sounds and it drives me to build bigger and better hybrid speakers.
It is possible to discuss the qualitative for the sake of observation and perception WITHOUT the audiophool crap.
That input is very meaningful. I have found a similar liking in the Vegateons. The U-baffle made it interesting, and seemed to add depth and dimension to the overall sound stage. I was expecting it all at expense of 'pinpoint' accuracy in the sound stage, as this is what I typically have heard from open rare wave deaigns, but it is not.
Thanks. Helps fit some puzzle peices together and guide where to go thinking forward.
The Morel feedback helps too! I am picking up my 4-way cabinets from Roman on Sunday and I am using the EM1308 2" dome mid.
Ill share measurements and info around the 1308 as it devlopes.
They are ultimately as much Roman's as mine. His CnC/hand made hybrid work on the tapered cabinets with a slanted baffle are just as complex with wacky coumpound cuts, and insane bracing scheme, and crazy facets I challanged him to do.
This lead to the name 'Diomede', after the islands that sit in the bering straight (Not the Greek myth) dead between the US and Russia, strattling the international timeline. I am 1/2 Russian and Roman, well, we all know him. So this is really a design and build that is taking the world to come together...(At least in my heart).
No more hijacking. More to come. I may start a thread once I get the 175lb (ish) cabinets home.....
On a side note: does anyone pay much attention to the step response? These model excellently in that regard compared to just about every bass reflex design I've modeled. How audible is that?
Step response is one of those things in woofers written off as non-audible, yet many agree sealed sounds better than reflex.
The improved step reaponse is in relationship to the better group delay. Since you are targeting what essentely is a non-resonant system in a sealed enclosure, and the inherent nature of a resinator system (reflex, TL, and PR is the worst in this regard) will have an acoustically reactive element, there will always be associated group delay, and worse step response.
The trade off is a good deal less acoustic power capabiliy sealed which means for louder, deeper bass a suprising amount of VC heating and thermal compression come into play. This is why if the woofer is not carefully selected for a sealed application, after a short listen, even at moderate volumes, they can sound tilted "up" and have less apparent bass than expected.
Collums did some neat testing around this and power compression can kick in in GOOD woofers with as little as 10wRMS program.
You should have zero issues with the SLS in this regard, but it is iteresting and if you plan on cranking them more often than not, it may be a concideration.
Also as you said issues with the sls and power compression shouldn't be a problem. I have a pair and the voice coil is well ventilated and very open to fresh air under the spider. Its price does not resemble its quality if you can get over the stamped steel frame.
There is a distinct audible effect, related to not just the decrease in output, but the shift in tuning caused by the increase in VC resistance and flux differences that occur when the coil gets hot...Even if not releasing its smoke.