Just as a sanity check... I took FR, distortion, and impedance measurements of my two speaker projects after I installed the real (not prototype) crossovers. Everything looks good to go for Indy! Only a couple more days to listen and verify.
@Wolf - I'm going to finally try to make my own demo disk. Should I add pink noise at the beginning or do you manually play your own generator before playing the CD?
I haven't heard from Mark @ Meniscus since December, so we'll see if anything shows up to the event with my name on it. Last I heard Ken Rhodes was putting it together who is also entering the competition. For all I know Ken stole my design and slapped his name on it. j/k
Dcibel is clearly my intellectual superior. I did not simply take his design... I put his name on mine. After hearing my crossover no one will ever respect Dcibel again. Insert evil laugh. 😂
To keep things fair I have my design finalized and Mark has the parts for me to assemble.
I come to learn not compete. Excited to get together.
Nice to hear from you Ken, and glad to hear that everything is in order. It’ll be interesting to see how my basic b design compares to everyone else’s, especially since I haven’t heard it myself.
Is a design that you've come up with and tweaked component values to your liking the best possible design that could ever be made? Is everyone's opinion of what sounds best the same as yours? I suppose you'll find the answer in a few days
I have done some designs and not changed them one iota from simulation with good measurements, at least in terms of the xover. IIRC, i simmed 3 times before i was happy with the Nephila prelim. I did not change them when i had them assembled except to stuff the cabs some more and add in a cap switch.
Good measurements and an eye for the sim is really all that CAN be required.
Last bit of tip, remember that the tweeters are slightly different sensitivity.....
I unfortunately won't be attending. Hopefully someone can take a few videos / notes. Perhaps, post the subjective testing, the schematics of the top 3 can be posted (which may be planned anyway?)
What would also be interesting (again post voting) would be taking frequency measurements (at 3 and/or 6 ft, 15 degrees off-center) of the top subjective winners. It could reveal frequency patterns that were chosen by the group as 'best sounding' i.e. possibly something similar to a BBC dip, or perhaps the flattest midrange / crossover range, or ??
I didn't voice mine, and it is probably good that I didn't, given how, when I get to an event, I often find that I have really messed up the tonal balance of my speaker(s). I loaded the full spinorama data set into VituixCad and then optimized the xover to obtain the best spinorama preference rating scores. Be interesting to see how this approach compares to other methods.
@jhollander said:
The corollary is can you design a speaker without voicing it? I heard some can...
I don't voice my designs because I don't trust my well worn ears and wouldn't know what to change if I did hear something I didn't like. I do change parts if I'm not happy with how they measure.
I voice all my speakers and trust my ears 100% because I build my speaker projects for my living/family room and our enjoyment. If someone else doesn't like them Boo Hoo Too Bad. Luckily my rooms and my ears must not be too terrible. I have received positive feedback of my projects at DIY events from people I respect. The only negative feedback I have EVER received was from some guy that said my project looked "so DIY" because it was still in naked MDF. Ouch that hurts... not really lol!
I guess that I have no clue what I'm doing because I always change from my original sim, and as a matter of fact I would guess that I have changed some designs upwards of a hundred times. Or maybe I just suck. But damn, I have fun!
For the record, I changed my original crossover from the test session into something that will not measure flat and I'm not sure how it will sound, but I thought that it would be fun to have a weird one in the bunch.
@ugly_woofer said:
For the record, I changed my original crossover from the test session into something that will not measure flat and I'm not sure how it will sound, but I thought that it would be fun to have a weird one in the bunch.
You talking xover, or do you resemble that remark? 😂
Comments
Just as a sanity check... I took FR, distortion, and impedance measurements of my two speaker projects after I installed the real (not prototype) crossovers. Everything looks good to go for Indy! Only a couple more days to listen and verify.
@Wolf - I'm going to finally try to make my own demo disk. Should I add pink noise at the beginning or do you manually play your own generator before playing the CD?
We match to the pink noise on the house disc, so it's not necessary.
InDIYana Event Website
Wolfy's Photobucket
I haven't heard from Mark @ Meniscus since December, so we'll see if anything shows up to the event with my name on it. Last I heard Ken Rhodes was putting it together who is also entering the competition. For all I know Ken stole my design and slapped his name on it. j/k
Any rough estimate for number of peeps coming?
Is there a for sale table?
Dcibel is clearly my intellectual superior. I did not simply take his design... I put his name on mine. After hearing my crossover no one will ever respect Dcibel again. Insert evil laugh. 😂
To keep things fair I have my design finalized and Mark has the parts for me to assemble.
I come to learn not compete. Excited to get together.
Nice to hear from you Ken, and glad to hear that everything is in order. It’ll be interesting to see how my basic b design compares to everyone else’s, especially since I haven’t heard it myself.
Any one > @6thplanet said:
Registered is around 40 I think? Yes, there will be a for sale table(s)
There are quite a few of us who have not heard our design. Maybe 3 of 9, got to voice their x-o?
More like me and Jack, as he built them too. Nick tried a couple, and then had to tweak. To my knowledge, 2 of the 13 were able to be fully voiced.
InDIYana Event Website
Wolfy's Photobucket
Back in 2000, they did it this way too, as only Rick had the speakers.
InDIYana Event Website
Wolfy's Photobucket
Is there any reason a fully voiced speaker shouldn't win/ sound best?
Is a design that you've come up with and tweaked component values to your liking the best possible design that could ever be made? Is everyone's opinion of what sounds best the same as yours? I suppose you'll find the answer in a few days
The corollary is can you design a speaker without voicing it? I heard some can...
I have done some designs and not changed them one iota from simulation with good measurements, at least in terms of the xover. IIRC, i simmed 3 times before i was happy with the Nephila prelim. I did not change them when i had them assembled except to stuff the cabs some more and add in a cap switch.
Good measurements and an eye for the sim is really all that CAN be required.
Last bit of tip, remember that the tweeters are slightly different sensitivity.....
InDIYana Event Website
Wolfy's Photobucket
I unfortunately won't be attending. Hopefully someone can take a few videos / notes. Perhaps, post the subjective testing, the schematics of the top 3 can be posted (which may be planned anyway?)
What would also be interesting (again post voting) would be taking frequency measurements (at 3 and/or 6 ft, 15 degrees off-center) of the top subjective winners. It could reveal frequency patterns that were chosen by the group as 'best sounding' i.e. possibly something similar to a BBC dip, or perhaps the flattest midrange / crossover range, or ??
I didn't voice mine, and it is probably good that I didn't, given how, when I get to an event, I often find that I have really messed up the tonal balance of my speaker(s). I loaded the full spinorama data set into VituixCad and then optimized the xover to obtain the best spinorama preference rating scores. Be interesting to see how this approach compares to other methods.
I don't voice my designs because I don't trust my well worn ears and wouldn't know what to change if I did hear something I didn't like. I do change parts if I'm not happy with how they measure.
Ron
I voice all my speakers and trust my ears 100% because I build my speaker projects for my living/family room and our enjoyment. If someone else doesn't like them Boo Hoo Too Bad. Luckily my rooms and my ears must not be too terrible. I have received positive feedback of my projects at DIY events from people I respect. The only negative feedback I have EVER received was from some guy that said my project looked "so DIY" because it was still in naked MDF. Ouch that hurts... not really lol!
Craig, remember everyone loves a pretty bottom!
I guess that I have no clue what I'm doing because I always change from my original sim, and as a matter of fact I would guess that I have changed some designs upwards of a hundred times. Or maybe I just suck. But damn, I have fun!
For the record, I changed my original crossover from the test session into something that will not measure flat and I'm not sure how it will sound, but I thought that it would be fun to have a weird one in the bunch.
I just found a bunch of DVD +R discs in a box, will those work or do I need actual CDs?
We expect no less
CD only as the Marantz won't even read DVDs.
InDIYana Event Website
Wolfy's Photobucket
You talking xover, or do you resemble that remark? 😂
InDIYana Event Website
Wolfy's Photobucket
Both actually!!!!!
Safe on tarmac in 'Cago - next stop FWA. We'll be there for lunch.
You're about 24 hours ahead of me, I'll be there for lunch Tomorrow.
If you wanna grab dinner tonight, let me know! I'll see if I'm able.
InDIYana Event Website
Wolfy's Photobucket
I've got "Donuts with Dad" tomorrow morning at my son's school, so I won't be there until mid afternoon.