It really was a great event, in retrospective. Taking the time to collect my thoughts, I have some comments on speakers presented. I didn't spend the entire time listening, impossible as I helped to make sure the playback part of the front stage was working correctly. Lots of great builds, I will omit more than one here, this is just what jumps out in my mind.
Pete's non-marksman Marksman build (altered non-Seos waveguide) was the smoothest, most natural speaker I've heard in a while. When listening in the breakfast nook at the Best Western/Pioneer hotel, I couldn't even comment on it because all I could hear was the horrible venue.
Bill's nanotech 3-way was hard to abuse, we had it pretty loud in the nook and it seemed to want even more. The resonance killing tapped port was great, and smoothed out the midrange audibly in my opinion. His self-mastered open-reel recording to HD audio was great too!
Ani's active two-way, while a bit lean on the bass offered great detail. I am quite a fan and familiar with the Battlestar Galactica soundtrack and the opening he played had resolution that I had not heard before, even in headphones.
JR's ancient Ratshack build still sets a high bar, even after all these years. I'm always impressed when I listen to it.
Great speakers all across. Its hard to pick out highlights when they have become this good. DIY keeps exceeding previous bars of performance, and it shows. Good job everyone!
= Howard Stark: "This is the key to the future. I'm limited by the technology of my time, but one day you'll figure this out."
How was the woofer on Pete's waveguide build? There looks to be some unique stuff in the pics.
I don't like wave guide speakers but I love Pete's B&C/RS28 build. It has that tight, fast-attack bass that pro drivers deliver and it's not at all shouty like some wave guides sound to my old ears. It couldn't have been easy to mate those drivers, but he did an excellent job.
I have to agree - it had the least "tweeter through cupped hands" sound of any waveguide/horn I have heard. Very nice speaker.
+1, one of the best waveguides I have heard. It even sounded good in the breakfast room.
Many thanks to BK, JR, Mrs. JR, Jason, DougP for putting on a great show. Lots of great sounding speakers. When the music started to play, I was expecting tons of slap echo, just like the dining hall last year. But after 3 or 4 selections, I was shocked at how good the room sounded. Here is a close up pic of the insulation, just below one of the lighting fixtures:
Thank you to all at MAC for another great event! This one went soo smoooth, but that was because of your your efforts before and behind the scenes. Thanks again to a great group of consummate gentlemen!
What a day! Great friends, new friends, great music (awesome house demo track BTW) and lots of fun! I thought all the designs looked and sounded great.
I have to complement Bill on the use of resonators on the ports of his design. Great idea! I saw the wheels turning on a lot of faces thinking how they could use that tech in their own projects.
I'm already looking forward to next years event!
Thanks, Curt. I was surprised by the interest, too. When you build a small speaker with a long port, you can tune the port with a trap, just like a musical instrument. I read somewhere that very long, low frequency pipe organ tubes are sometimes tuned with a trap for an improved tonality.
Oh hell yes! That explains why that room had no echo. The slits in the wall were insulated!! Lol. I was so busy manning the spl meter and taking pics, etc, that I totally missed that. Good eye as always Bill. I'd not pass up an opportunity to use that venue again. It was very cool.
This is the first thing you see when walking into the JRC center. A beautiful room. I ran the jpegs and will send them to Bryan. I took lots of shots from the balcony, too.
Sorry about posting before reading the responses to D1PP1N's question by the members. Thanks for the compliments guys. They were a joy to build and tweak.
There were lots of very enjoyable builds. Glad to finally make it back to a gathering.
Track 1: "Jesu Joy of Mans Desiring" Full Student Body (approx 450) 0:47 Track 2: "There Shall A Star From Jacob Come" Full Student Body (approx 450) 0:49 Track 3: "Ring-a-Ling" Concert Choir only (approx 100 students) 0:50 Track 4: "???????????" Concert Choir only (approx 100 students) 1:00 Track 5: "O Holy Night" Full Student Body (approx 450 students) 0:58
These selections were from the WLA high school Christmas Concert; December 1975. I recorded this using a Crown SX-724 R2R analog tape recorder at 15ips. Only 2 microphones were used, spaced about 10-15 feet apart.
How was the woofer on Pete's waveguide build? There looks to be some unique stuff in the pics.
What do you want to know about them? Just general impressions from attendees?
B&C 8BG51 8" woofer. Neo motor with plenty of copper on the pole and thermal rating of 250W. Very low distortion and decent bass extension. F3 ~ 45Hz.
I have a pair of seos waveguides for the rs28a's and I'm not sure what to do with them. Was thinking mtm with anarchy's or a nice 2way.
The pairing of the SEOS8 and RS28A will allow you to cross your tweeter to quite a large woofer, almost anything that has smooth response to 1KHz. Even something like the RS270 or RSS265HF-4 would work and give you a two-way with true full-range output.
How was the woofer on Pete's waveguide build? There looks to be some unique stuff in the pics.
What do you want to know about them? Just general impressions from attendees?
B&C 8BG51 8" woofer. Neo motor with plenty of copper on the pole and thermal rating of 250W. Very low distortion and decent bass extension. F3 ~ 45Hz.
I have a pair of seos waveguides for the rs28a's and I'm not sure what to do with them. Was thinking mtm with anarchy's or a nice 2way.
The pairing of the SEOS8 and RS28A will allow you to cross your tweeter to quite a large woofer, almost anything that has smooth response to 1KHz. Even something like the RS270 or RSS265HF-4 would work and give you a two-way with true full-range output.
Is there a benefit to rs270 over the RSS265HF that i am missing? The rss265 looks to play to 1k very smoothly. Doing a quick model it looks like 30-35 liters yields and f3/f6/f10 of 42-31-24 in a reasonable size standmout sealed. Could go a little smaller but the cabinet has to be sort of wide to begin with. I've always loved the shape of your cabinets on these waveguide speakers and been wanting to try one for a long time. Seems like good enough reason to try. Any more recommendations on a large woofer for the 225-300 price range for both? After looking at that sub ita pretty dang impressive. Can handle way more power that the tweeter so it should run out of gusto lol. Ported is a lot bigger of a box but I'm not sure if I want another large tower.
Also the round waveguide from pellegrine needed alot of extra parts to tame it (like 7-10 parts on tweeter), does the seos waveguide need a ton of parts or is it more straight forward. I do think want that duck caller horn sound and was wondering if you have any pointers on how to avoid that or have a suggestion on what frequency region causes that bullhorn type sound.
I run the RS225 in my Sunflowers in a vented cabinet about 2 cubic ft. It puts out more than enough bass. I would think the RS270 will do better and will be great even in a sealed cabinet.
I have a rs225 in a TL that is pretty good and a 2x 225P 2.5 way that I really like. I think a 10inch would do fine even sealed. I had a tarkus pair for awhile too. That was pretty damn good bass wise but I would take the finalists and the TMM Paul Carmody did the crossover for over the tarkus simply because the higher quality drivers gave them a S.Q. improvement.
Anyone have a pair of the 10" RS270's laying around they are on back order. Are there any other 10" drivers that would work in that price range?
I have a rs225 in a TL that is pretty good and a 2x 225P 2.5 way that I really like. I think a 10inch would do fine even sealed. I had a tarkus pair for awhile too. That was pretty damn good bass wise but I would take the finalists and the TMM Paul Carmody did the crossover for over the tarkus simply because the higher quality drivers gave them a S.Q. improvement.
Anyone have a pair of the 10" RS270's laying around they are on back order. Are there any other 10" drivers that would work in that price range?
I was looking at the DSA270 tonight and it looks pretty darn nice.
Peerless 830668 looks reasonable too.
As far as the guide not producing that honking sound, its pretty much a matter of keeping the response nice and smooth across the band and staying within the natural response of the guide/tweeter combo.
The Marksman SEOS kit XO has 5 components on the tweeter. So does the version I brought to Iowa, just not the same values.
If you want to go even cheaper, the Dayton SD270A-88 that I used in the Indium 7 has smooth response out past 1kHz and is less than $40. In the Indium 7, it is crossed at 750 Hz.
Keep an open mind, but don't let your brain fall out.
Track 1: "Jesu Joy of Mans Desiring" Full Student Body (approx 450) 0:47 Track 2: "There Shall A Star From Jacob Come" Full Student Body (approx 450) 0:49 Track 3: "Ring-a-Ling" Concert Choir only (approx 100 students) 0:50 Track 4: "???????????" Concert Choir only (approx 100 students) 1:00 Track 5: "O Holy Night" Full Student Body (approx 450 students) 0:58
These selections were from the WLA high school Christmas Concert; December 1975. I recorded this using a Crown SX-724 R2R analog tape recorder at 15ips. Only 2 microphones were used, spaced about 10-15 feet apart.
Some of those demo cuts are really amazing. Don't be surprised if you hear them again in other peoples demos. *shamelessly steals demo material*
= Howard Stark: "This is the key to the future. I'm limited by the technology of my time, but one day you'll figure this out."
There were certainly difference that was heard. The first one was that of SPL, one of the track was too loud, on level matching, one of the tracks seems more spacious, one had details but sounded busy.... I don't remember which was what...
If you want to go even cheaper, the Dayton SD270A-88 that I used in the Indium 7 has smooth response out past 1kHz and is less than $40. In the Indium 7, it is crossed at 750 Hz.
What do you think the sound quality would be on that woofer crossed that high? I haven't heard your build before. I can buy 4 of them or the dsa's and get a slight discount. I wouldn't mind using 2 for the sb29/vifa/10" woofer 3way and use the other 2 for the waveguide build. I definitely don't want to sacrifice sound quality to save a few bucks is what I am saying.
How did the HD vs standard track comparison come out?
Jim
I heard the level matching that Ani mentioned, but that was about it. I had trouble hearing differences on the other tests. I think the problem was that I was sitting closer to the left speaker, and once Bryan mentioned the problem with the left tweeter, my mind kept focusing in on the "sizzle" coming from that tweeter. Also, that room had a pretty bad echo problem. Maybe I could have heard a difference using a good pair of headphones.
Comments
Thanks, Curt. I was surprised by the interest, too. When you build a small speaker with a long port, you can tune the port with a trap, just like a musical instrument. I read somewhere that very long, low frequency pipe organ tubes are sometimes tuned with a trap for an improved tonality.
B&C 8BG51 8" woofer. Neo motor with plenty of copper on the pole and thermal rating of 250W. Very low distortion and decent bass extension. F3 ~ 45Hz.
Infected Mushroom - Avratz
Melody Gardot - Heart is as Black as Night
Ray LaMontagne - Be Here Now
Robert Berry - Traveling the Ways
There were lots of very enjoyable builds. Glad to finally make it back to a gathering.
My demo playlist:
Track 1: "Jesu Joy of Mans Desiring" Full Student Body (approx 450) 0:47
Track 2: "There Shall A Star From Jacob Come" Full Student Body (approx 450) 0:49
Track 3: "Ring-a-Ling" Concert Choir only (approx 100 students) 0:50
Track 4: "???????????" Concert Choir only (approx 100 students) 1:00
Track 5: "O Holy Night" Full Student Body (approx 450 students) 0:58
These selections were from the WLA high school Christmas Concert; December 1975. I recorded this using a Crown SX-724 R2R analog tape recorder at 15ips. Only 2 microphones were used, spaced about 10-15 feet apart.
Also the round waveguide from pellegrine needed alot of extra parts to tame it (like 7-10 parts on tweeter), does the seos waveguide need a ton of parts or is it more straight forward. I do think want that duck caller horn sound and was wondering if you have any pointers on how to avoid that or have a suggestion on what frequency region causes that bullhorn type sound.
Thanks
Anyone have a pair of the 10" RS270's laying around they are on back order. Are there any other 10" drivers that would work in that price range?
Peerless 830668 looks reasonable too.
As far as the guide not producing that honking sound, its pretty much a matter of keeping the response nice and smooth across the band and staying within the natural response of the guide/tweeter combo.
The Marksman SEOS kit XO has 5 components on the tweeter. So does the version I brought to Iowa, just not the same values.
Sehlin Sound Solutions
Jim
Thanks Jason!
Jim
I heard the level matching that Ani mentioned, but that was about it. I had trouble hearing differences on the other tests. I think the problem was that I was sitting closer to the left speaker, and once Bryan mentioned the problem with the left tweeter, my mind kept focusing in on the "sizzle" coming from that tweeter. Also, that room had a pretty bad echo problem. Maybe I could have heard a difference using a good pair of headphones.