That's funny, that's exactly what happened to me with the Sansui's. I had them sitting up, luckily back to back. As soon as I left my house the first slight turn I went around, BAM! one hit the other.🤦🏻♂️
I always raid the towel drawer when transporting delicate stuff like this. Drape over the side then shove the speakers together. Can't fall into each other if they are already touching. Just gotta be sure the towel won't fall down between or the tops can start rubbing/knocking.
@MarvinS said:
Thanks for all the pics and comments, all. Gives me some idea of what I missed.
Bill, did you post pics of Maynard's project?
Probably not. There were a couple missing tent card situations, so maybe I missed them. Can you tell me what they looked like, drivers, etc., and I will see if I can find them. Thanks.
@PWRRYD said:
My speakers had a little accident on the way home Sunday.... I had them standing up in the back seat because my car's trunk was completely full of Charlie's fire sale drivers. A sharp off camber turn in Chicago construction tipped one over and it hit the other. Only cosmetic but the paint got jacked up pretty bad.
On the positive side, looks like no one was hurt, only the speakers. This is one of the reasons I usually avoid going through the Chicago tollway system. Multiple construction projects with tons of orange barrels and cones all over the place. If you are not a daily commuter, the sharp zig-zags can catch you by surprise. Again, good to see that no one was hurt.
Thanks, Bill, for your photo coverage of the event, and of my Front Row entry.
You give me the opportunity to mention that the design does not work as hoped. If we require of the "sweet spot" that the listener perceives a sharp center image, then Front Row fails to make a sweet spot significantly wider than a conventional design. My experiment trying to do this has me convinced that it is probably not possible.
What Front Row does do is keep information that is panned left or right in balance, so that the two sides of the sound stage remain equally loud for every seat in the row. Even that effect may not be a significant improvement, since the level difference between one end of the row and the other is only 3 dB for a conventional speaker, and only 1.5 dB for a tall line array.
But if we expect the output from the two speakers in each pair we build to match each other with tolerances closer than +/- 1 dB, Front Row matches that well, not only when heard from the center seat, but also when sitting elsewhere in the row. It raises the bar and changes the measurements needed for "good" off-axis response.
Thanks to Wolf and Chuck and everyone else who made the event fun and interesting and informative.
I'd like to point out that Meredith did a lot of research and wrote a lengthy description of the basis for his speaker that included references. It was a very scientific effort all around, and despite that the stated goal was not reached it was well thought out and executed, using the materials typical of a Cargill speaker.
Thanks for taking the time to create the writeup about the concept, Meredith. I enjoyed reading it.
And thank you for the detailed demonstration, Meredith! I do not fully understand many of the concepts involved, but I always learn a great deal. Keep them coming. I look forward to see what you come up with next year!
@charlielaub said
Thanks for taking the time to create the writeup about the concept, Meredith. I enjoyed reading it.
@mcargill - I too enjoyed the write-up. I know in the past you have posted your write-up on PETT, hopefully you will do that again for those who didn't get to read it or simply weren't at InDIYana.
@VCORPUZ23 said:
It's been great seeing everyone at the event!
I enjoyed listening to all great sounding speakers! Until next time. Love you guys!
It was nice talking to you at the event Vince. I thought both of your speakers sounded good! I look forward to seeing you either at InDIYana next year or one of the events before then.
@PWRRYD said:
My speakers had a little accident on the way home Sunday.... I had them standing up in the back seat because my car's trunk was completely full of Charlie's fire sale drivers. A sharp off camber turn in Chicago construction tipped one over and it hit the other. Only cosmetic but the paint got jacked up pretty bad.
Craig, how did you do the grey finish on these? I thought the grey and black was so simple that rather than looking basic they turned out really elegant.
I just filled the joints and particle board end grain with regular Elmer's wood putty and sanded them smooth. I rolled on one very heavy coat of water based Zinsser Bulls Eye 1-2-3 with a 1/4" knap roller cover and lightly sanded them flat again. Then I rolled on two medium coats of that gray color using the same 1/4" knap roller cover. It's the cheapest (Home Depot) Behr interior, eggshell, acrylic latex paint (not the more expensive one that has primer in it). I didn't want it to have any sheen, that's why I picked the eggshell. Turns out it has just a bit. I agree, they turned out looking way better than I expected. The whole idea was to NOT bring another naked MDF or particle board project to an event.
The baffles are just 1" thick, oak, edge glued, stair treads from Menards. I sanded them smooth up to 220 grit, then gave them a few wet coats of matte black Krylon rattle can spray paint. Super simple and I like how they look. Almost like that black ash finish that was popular on speakers in the 80's/90's. Thanks for asking.
@PWRRYD said:
...then gave them a few wet coats of matte black Krylon rattle can spray paint... Almost like that black ash finish that was popular on speakers in the 80's/90's.
Exactly! I really liked how the grain was evident even though the baffle was black. I've done eveything in MDF until my last few cabinets where I've started using particleboard.
I am shocked at how simple both the gray and black were done, especially the Behr paint with a roller.
I so much more enjoy the measuring, designing crossovers, and final voicing process of DIY speakers. Building the boxes is still somewhat fun (sans routering driver rebates). That said the whole stress level of applying beautiful veneer, or spraying perfect paint jobs... basically all finishes is just a necessary evil. LOL
If I was still a single guy I would have a house full of bare MDF speaker projects.
LOL. When I met my future wife my living room had zero furniture in it. However there was a couple of sets of racing slicks and a new pair of AFR 225 aluminum heads in there. Boy that changed quickly
Comments
That's funny, that's exactly what happened to me with the Sansui's. I had them sitting up, luckily back to back. As soon as I left my house the first slight turn I went around, BAM! one hit the other.🤦🏻♂️
InDIYana Event Website
Thanks for all the pics and comments, all. Gives me some idea of what I missed.
Bill, did you post pics of Maynard's project?
I always raid the towel drawer when transporting delicate stuff like this. Drape over the side then shove the speakers together. Can't fall into each other if they are already touching. Just gotta be sure the towel won't fall down between or the tops can start rubbing/knocking.
After my dented dust-cap in Iowa and my bent aluminum cones for InDIYana, I will have my speakers packed in speaker-armor from now on.
Probably not. There were a couple missing tent card situations, so maybe I missed them. Can you tell me what they looked like, drivers, etc., and I will see if I can find them. Thanks.
On the positive side, looks like no one was hurt, only the speakers. This is one of the reasons I usually avoid going through the Chicago tollway system. Multiple construction projects with tons of orange barrels and cones all over the place. If you are not a daily commuter, the sharp zig-zags can catch you by surprise. Again, good to see that no one was hurt.
I always pack my speakers well so everything is good until I drop one taking it out of the box.
Thanks for sharing all the pics and comments for those of us who missed the show. Hopefully some of these builds will show up in Iowa.
Ron
Maynard was not able to make it.
InDIYana Event Website
Thanks, Bill, for your photo coverage of the event, and of my Front Row entry.
You give me the opportunity to mention that the design does not work as hoped. If we require of the "sweet spot" that the listener perceives a sharp center image, then Front Row fails to make a sweet spot significantly wider than a conventional design. My experiment trying to do this has me convinced that it is probably not possible.
What Front Row does do is keep information that is panned left or right in balance, so that the two sides of the sound stage remain equally loud for every seat in the row. Even that effect may not be a significant improvement, since the level difference between one end of the row and the other is only 3 dB for a conventional speaker, and only 1.5 dB for a tall line array.
But if we expect the output from the two speakers in each pair we build to match each other with tolerances closer than +/- 1 dB, Front Row matches that well, not only when heard from the center seat, but also when sitting elsewhere in the row. It raises the bar and changes the measurements needed for "good" off-axis response.
Thanks to Wolf and Chuck and everyone else who made the event fun and interesting and informative.
Meredith
This was a neat demonstration. Meredith never ceases to impress me with his cardboard monstrosities.
InDIYana Event Website
I'd like to point out that Meredith did a lot of research and wrote a lengthy description of the basis for his speaker that included references. It was a very scientific effort all around, and despite that the stated goal was not reached it was well thought out and executed, using the materials typical of a Cargill speaker.
Thanks for taking the time to create the writeup about the concept, Meredith. I enjoyed reading it.
i love your stuff.
And thank you for the detailed demonstration, Meredith! I do not fully understand many of the concepts involved, but I always learn a great deal. Keep them coming. I look forward to see what you come up with next year!
@mcargill - I too enjoyed the write-up. I know in the past you have posted your write-up on PETT, hopefully you will do that again for those who didn't get to read it or simply weren't at InDIYana.
That explains that. Thanks.
It's been great seeing everyone at the event!
I enjoyed listening to all great sounding speakers! Until next time. Love you guys!
Indiyana 2023 was a blast!
It was nice talking to you at the event Vince. I thought both of your speakers sounded good! I look forward to seeing you either at InDIYana next year or one of the events before then.
Thank you! Until next time. I'm about to do a small 2 ways. SB12PFC25-04 and Peerless DX20.
It was good to have you present, Vince! Until the next one...
Keep us posted.
InDIYana Event Website
Craig, how did you do the grey finish on these? I thought the grey and black was so simple that rather than looking basic they turned out really elegant.
Thanks David.
I just filled the joints and particle board end grain with regular Elmer's wood putty and sanded them smooth. I rolled on one very heavy coat of water based Zinsser Bulls Eye 1-2-3 with a 1/4" knap roller cover and lightly sanded them flat again. Then I rolled on two medium coats of that gray color using the same 1/4" knap roller cover. It's the cheapest (Home Depot) Behr interior, eggshell, acrylic latex paint (not the more expensive one that has primer in it). I didn't want it to have any sheen, that's why I picked the eggshell. Turns out it has just a bit. I agree, they turned out looking way better than I expected. The whole idea was to NOT bring another naked MDF or particle board project to an event.
Edited: added more info.
The baffles are just 1" thick, oak, edge glued, stair treads from Menards. I sanded them smooth up to 220 grit, then gave them a few wet coats of matte black Krylon rattle can spray paint. Super simple and I like how they look. Almost like that black ash finish that was popular on speakers in the 80's/90's. Thanks for asking.
Exactly! I really liked how the grain was evident even though the baffle was black. I've done eveything in MDF until my last few cabinets where I've started using particleboard.
I am shocked at how simple both the gray and black were done, especially the Behr paint with a roller.
I so much more enjoy the measuring, designing crossovers, and final voicing process of DIY speakers. Building the boxes is still somewhat fun (sans routering driver rebates). That said the whole stress level of applying beautiful veneer, or spraying perfect paint jobs... basically all finishes is just a necessary evil. LOL
If I was still a single guy I would have a house full of bare MDF speaker projects.
Or we can invert that...If you now had a house full of bare MDF speaker projects, you might again be a single guy.
LOL. When I met my future wife my living room had zero furniture in it. However there was a couple of sets of racing slicks and a new pair of AFR 225 aluminum heads in there. Boy that changed quickly
MAC Archive page for Indy 2023 is HERE