I have found the CAC drivers to be very exceptional as well, even the Bromo kit was very nice. To me, the clarity is so good and better than the SB aluminum sibling; even if the measurements say they are the same. I like them a lot! That said, I've been a fan of ceramic drivers since 2007 at Iowa when first hearing the MBOW1 2nd generation from Dave Ellis with Accuton drivers. Clarity of all the subtle nuances is reproduced articulately with these kind of drive units.
Dare I say, with some bias, this is the best 4" (really more of a 4.5") TM 2way I've built or heard. I know of no other in this size class to yield good clean bass to the lower 30Hz range, nor any other to do it as cleanly. Josh Groban's "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" was just impressive. Rory's Neutrinos are a very close second IMO, with my Stances, Sophomores, and Synchaetas, Paul's Speedsters and OS, Scott's Rhodiums, Dan's Purifi/LD22, MikeyZ's New Horizons, and Duanebro's Dayton 4s somewhere below there. This opinion is based on only those i have heard, and i am sure there are many others i have not. None of the others however have the complexity and complications I had with these either. They were a very complicated build process, rife with added assembly steps and more resulting difficulties as the build progressed.
I don't plan on doing a DCR or DBR with PRs in the future, unless I can use a MUCH larger box. This was mainly a proof of concept build, as well as a bucket-list build, as I'd seen no other of the same. I would encourage others to try it before denying the capabilities, but be aware and ready for the challenges to ensue.
It was obvious when listened to sb12cac that is was a special driver. I've also had the 15 and 17. The 5 inch I was inexperience and didn't get the best out of except for great bass. But then rebuilt 3 way that originally had 'bromo' kit with a 10 inch driver assist and did bad on until I revisited after cutting my teeth some for 3 way xovers. New version was with peerless sls10, sb17cac and sb26tac, leveraged some of Hinson's tweet shaping from his rulebreakers and ended up creating slamming 3 way that sounded right. The sb17cac's were killing it with loud metal/rock that my oldest son listens to up there in the bonus room who commented "I like the way those sound" when I was trying to voice them in my smallish room.
My chunkers, I call them, with sb12cac, wavecor ceramidome and satori wo24 3 ways are doing well in fam room. Still some final voicing to get bass balance right for the room which didn't notice until listened to more music, but kills it for tv/movie/series watching. It is always great when wife comments on things sounding good or improved. So clear and defined in upper bands, no glares - it almost like no news is good news impression that like oh yeah. I can tell myself when DD5.1 dynamics start peaking that drivers not even breaking sweat and just deliver.
Mind you, my applied box is what allows the extension. I heard the Micro C a few years ago, and it's a dynamite little package too, but does not go as low.
@Wolf said:
Mind you, my applied box is what allows the extension. I heard the Micro C a few years ago, and it's a dynamite little package too, but does not go as low.
Understood here, Ben - I am interested in them primarily for their use as a detailed midrange driver in a 3 way or as a desktop PC speaker as a midwoofer. If they are as detailed as the ^ comments indicate they should fit either role with aplomb.
I'm with @Wolf . So whilst the SB12CAC is a good driver, in this case, much of bass is coming from the enclosure and elaborate tuning and passive radiator(s).
I wonder whether an outdoor ground plane measurement will reveal the most truth...
Yes exactly as you showed previously. Far more and wider range of output, than say, the output of the Micro-C, which I’ve measured, but not sure where I’ve saved the measurements (change of PC)
did you, by chance, manage to capture a nearfield of the SB12?
Exactly how much bass is that contributing, and at what frequencies eg, 250Hz-120Hz, 120Hz-60Hz, 60Hz-30Hz.
He was easy to work with too. I stated size, font, and color I was hoping for, and he listed my options. This was such a simple process. I'll likely have Keith make more for me in the future. If you want something like this, I believe Keith is your man!
@Wolf said:
He was easy to work with too. I stated size, font, and color I was hoping for, and he listed my options. This was such a simple process. I'll likely have Keith make more for me in the future. If you want something like this, I believe Keith is your man!
Thanks for the kind recommendation, Ben! I appreciated how prepared you were with your needs. You made the process super easy
I have had plates made at the local trophy shop several times, so I had an idea what you would need. They always looked at me funny because I would specify font, shape, size, style, etc. I was very particular in the look i wanted. They also charged quite a bit more than you did with a setup fee, etc, and got a few wrong and had to redo them. Once I said Xenolith and got Cenolith. Another, the Stances, I'm still not certain it isn't still wrong. I used Parchment font, and the first letter is questionable. With you, Keith, this was a breeze by comparison.
I just ordered a set of grills, I hope they fit OK (and sound OK too). I've been thinking about this for a while. I was worried about people touching my speaker cones, intentionally or unintentionally, or just getting damaged during handling. It may score me an extra point for craftsmanship too, if they look good. Thanks for the inspiration!
Comments
I have found the CAC drivers to be very exceptional as well, even the Bromo kit was very nice. To me, the clarity is so good and better than the SB aluminum sibling; even if the measurements say they are the same. I like them a lot! That said, I've been a fan of ceramic drivers since 2007 at Iowa when first hearing the MBOW1 2nd generation from Dave Ellis with Accuton drivers. Clarity of all the subtle nuances is reproduced articulately with these kind of drive units.
Dare I say, with some bias, this is the best 4" (really more of a 4.5") TM 2way I've built or heard. I know of no other in this size class to yield good clean bass to the lower 30Hz range, nor any other to do it as cleanly. Josh Groban's "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" was just impressive. Rory's Neutrinos are a very close second IMO, with my Stances, Sophomores, and Synchaetas, Paul's Speedsters and OS, Scott's Rhodiums, Dan's Purifi/LD22, MikeyZ's New Horizons, and Duanebro's Dayton 4s somewhere below there. This opinion is based on only those i have heard, and i am sure there are many others i have not. None of the others however have the complexity and complications I had with these either. They were a very complicated build process, rife with added assembly steps and more resulting difficulties as the build progressed.
I don't plan on doing a DCR or DBR with PRs in the future, unless I can use a MUCH larger box. This was mainly a proof of concept build, as well as a bucket-list build, as I'd seen no other of the same. I would encourage others to try it before denying the capabilities, but be aware and ready for the challenges to ensue.
InDIYana Event Website
It was obvious when listened to sb12cac that is was a special driver. I've also had the 15 and 17. The 5 inch I was inexperience and didn't get the best out of except for great bass. But then rebuilt 3 way that originally had 'bromo' kit with a 10 inch driver assist and did bad on until I revisited after cutting my teeth some for 3 way xovers. New version was with peerless sls10, sb17cac and sb26tac, leveraged some of Hinson's tweet shaping from his rulebreakers and ended up creating slamming 3 way that sounded right. The sb17cac's were killing it with loud metal/rock that my oldest son listens to up there in the bonus room who commented "I like the way those sound" when I was trying to voice them in my smallish room.
My chunkers, I call them, with sb12cac, wavecor ceramidome and satori wo24 3 ways are doing well in fam room. Still some final voicing to get bass balance right for the room which didn't notice until listened to more music, but kills it for tv/movie/series watching. It is always great when wife comments on things sounding good or improved. So clear and defined in upper bands, no glares - it almost like no news is good news impression that like oh yeah. I can tell myself when DD5.1 dynamics start peaking that drivers not even breaking sweat and just deliver.
Oh, look they are on sale at $20 off each -->https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-4-woofers/sb-acoustics-sb12cacs25-04
Yep, a great price!
InDIYana Event Website
There are some even cheaper on eBay (about $70 for a PAIR). I picked up a pair due to all of the favorable comments above.
Mind you, my applied box is what allows the extension. I heard the Micro C a few years ago, and it's a dynamite little package too, but does not go as low.
InDIYana Event Website
Damn! Thanks for the heads-up, David! --> https://www.ebay.com/itm/145688064432?itmmeta=01J0KB75KMB56XCF6HEGQVM0KF&hash=item21ebaf71b0:g:5wYAAOSwBOtmAk1M&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA4Hd9ZsZCHHu5PI7AQdmhgTUJgqhsZkTV3vXcDfV1GpbITMPS/sIxZOsTtPK/cjWnK1PJzf4qx2Qiwes4J4B26auiRCA2/mG+95+u7jn2w5sivYLeHVvzHtxPQZ6l0CTZyyQ2u6OGMINZa52LvS1Fy9kuH/Sy5DygNAW60nmU+VM3FrtxOE3ZQlsmycxqwos/kadnJFnv26dj07cBg13Eph8ZFiG4oKmhhiVU52xhDjpv0fdh5go+NhzF1oC/MctGwUeAS9MVacO0t7COvpQd0MKlIEpHSoyrYvYF2qy2+sob|tkp:Bk9SR_DZnOuEZA
I CANNOT RESIST!
Understood here, Ben - I am interested in them primarily for their use as a detailed midrange driver in a 3 way or as a desktop PC speaker as a midwoofer. If they are as detailed as the ^ comments indicate they should fit either role with aplomb.
I'm with @Wolf . So whilst the SB12CAC is a good driver, in this case, much of bass is coming from the enclosure and elaborate tuning and passive radiator(s).
I wonder whether an outdoor ground plane measurement will reveal the most truth...
Still need to get to my off axis measurements, but I think the rear PR nearfield plot shows a lot about what is going on.
InDIYana Event Website
Yes exactly as you showed previously. Far more and wider range of output, than say, the output of the Micro-C, which I’ve measured, but not sure where I’ve saved the measurements (change of PC)
did you, by chance, manage to capture a nearfield of the SB12?
Exactly how much bass is that contributing, and at what frequencies eg, 250Hz-120Hz, 120Hz-60Hz, 60Hz-30Hz.
No, but I can...
InDIYana Event Website
Just redrew the final circuit as I have them. Nothing has changed for awhile, just have more clarity in the schematic.
InDIYana Event Website
Well done. Thanks for sharing. One of these days I am going to sit down and "try" to figure out how to do a series connected xover.
Laserboy hooked me up with some nice badges....
InDIYana Event Website
Way to go Keith! Those look cool.
He was easy to work with too. I stated size, font, and color I was hoping for, and he listed my options. This was such a simple process. I'll likely have Keith make more for me in the future. If you want something like this, I believe Keith is your man!
InDIYana Event Website
Absolutely!
Thanks Craig! I'm always happy to help out my speaker buds!
Thanks for the kind recommendation, Ben! I appreciated how prepared you were with your needs. You made the process super easy
I have had plates made at the local trophy shop several times, so I had an idea what you would need. They always looked at me funny because I would specify font, shape, size, style, etc. I was very particular in the look i wanted. They also charged quite a bit more than you did with a setup fee, etc, and got a few wrong and had to redo them. Once I said Xenolith and got Cenolith. Another, the Stances, I'm still not certain it isn't still wrong. I used Parchment font, and the first letter is questionable. With you, Keith, this was a breeze by comparison.
InDIYana Event Website
InDIYana Event Website
Kidos with pokey fingers?
Not mine, she's almost 12. A little concerned over PE in a couple weeks if any kids are present. $250/tweeter isn't easy to replace.
InDIYana Event Website
Or some of the adults
Yeah, those fingers too. I've seen drivers get damaged there, so I'm being cautious. Eric's w8-740p comes to mind...
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Now yall have given me anxiety-paranoia
It's not common for damages, but Nick placed no touch signs on the Minions for a reason.
InDIYana Event Website
I just ordered a set of grills, I hope they fit OK (and sound OK too). I've been thinking about this for a while. I was worried about people touching my speaker cones, intentionally or unintentionally, or just getting damaged during handling. It may score me an extra point for craftsmanship too, if they look good. Thanks for the inspiration!
Yeah, it's an unfortunate risk with outtings. I've luckily never had a driver damaged, but have had battle scars on a few cabs.